DJ Paulette

Welcome back to Tracks of Our Queers. 

One of only two female resident DJs at Manchester's iconic Haçienda nightclub in the early '90s, DJ Paulette has spent 30 years pioneering a rich legacy in a male-dominated industry... not the easiest of tasks as a Black, bisexual woman.

In this beautiful conversation, Paulette shares insights from her career and identity, alongside three transcendent selections – we discuss music by Candi Staton, Sylvester, and Grace Jones.

You can follow DJ Paulette on Instagram here, and purchase her brand new memoir, Welcome to the Club, at all good booksellers.

Listen to all previous guest choices in one handy Spotify playlist, Selections from Tracks of Our Queers and follow the pod on Instagram.

Transcript

Paulette 1
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[00:00:00] 

Andy Gott: Hello. Welcome back to tracks of our careers. 

Each episode, I chat to a fascinating queer person about one song, one album, and one artist

I've soundtrack that life. Nearly everyone has a connection with music. But the relationship that queer people share with it can be especially profound. This show seeks to find out why. 

If you're previous listening to the pod, welcome back. It's been a minute and I'm excited to finally hit, publish on some wonderful conversations that deserve to be heard. In this upcoming season, you'll hear from drug legends, brilliant broadcasters, phenomenal queer artists and performers and inspiring authors. Not to mention a handful of genuine trailblazers here and there. 

Now you may have heard me ramble on about my own queer coming of age, in the wonderful city of Manchester. 

Whether you've spent time there yourself or not, you might be aware of its enormous contributions to both the [00:01:00] musical and queer culture of the UK. DJ Paulette, that was one of just two female resident DJs at the Hacienda Manchester's and for a period at one of the world's most iconic nightclubs ever. Paulette held court in the Pussy Parlour at the infamous flesh party. The haciendas only queer club night in the early nineties. From Manchester, Paulette moved on to London, Paris and Ibiza thought blazing trails along the way for female black and queer DJs before returning to her home city in 2015, where she since owned the room at enormous queer parties like Homobloc. 

By the time you hear this, Paula has just published her debut book Welcome to the Club. Printed by the Manchester University Press Paulette shares the highs, lows and lessons. Have a 30 year music career. Offering the remarkable view of the music industry from a black woman's perspective. I highly recommend ordering yourself a copy. 

If you've enjoyed what you've heard on [00:02:00] the show in previous episodes? Well, one you'll absolutely love what's to come, but two, it would mean so much. If you would consider donating just the equivalent of a coffee, wherever you are in the world. This show is a Wong queer band, and I absolutely love making it. But any listener contributions go a huge way in keeping the lights switched on. That said ratings and even reviews are completely free and are also massively impactful in finding new ears. 

So, thank you so much in advance. 

If you can spare me one of those. Anyway enough from me. Over to Paulette.

​

Andy Gott: DJ Paulette, welcome to Tracks of Our Queers.

DJ Paulette: Thank you. I sound all so girly. No, but thank you for inviting me. I don't know what happened there. I don't know, that was another person inside me. I don't know who that person is, but she can go away.

Andy Gott: There's space for all the Paulettes here. 

DJ Paulette: And there are many.

Andy Gott: what was the first [00:03:00] record you bought for yourself?

DJ Paulette: It was actually Pop Music by Em. And I got my sister to get it because she was working at Woolworths at the time and Woolworths sold records. And I just hammered Like, I bought it with my spends but I wasn't old enough to go into town so, on my own, so she got it from work and bought it home and I just hammered it.

It was great. And I still know all the lyrics to it.

Andy Gott: I'm gonna come back to your childhood, but on the topic of buying records, what was the first record you bought to play as a DJ?

DJ Paulette: That's a, that's a good question. And another question, because I think the first record, I can't really remember the first record I bought to play as a DJ because I already had those records.

So I didn't. I don't think I specifically started buying records as a DJ until I started.

working at Flesh

And [00:04:00] I think it was at least a couple of months into that when I'd started earning proper money from DJ gigs where I started buying music specifically for DJing. But up, up until that point, I think I was playing all the records I already had and all the records I was already buying.

So I, it, it wasn't, I didn't go out, even, even when I started DJing, I didn't go out specifically to buy records to DJ with, I just went out to buy more music. And I'm still a bit like that now anyway, even with the music that I buy for DJing now, whatever the gigs are, I still have a punter mindset. So You know, for sure, every month when I've got a refilm radio show coming up or I've got an Apple Music show coming up, I'll think, Right, I've got to specifically get things for that, and I can tell you what [00:05:00] those records are.

But I still buy a lot of music around it, because I just fancy it. And, you know, maybe it'll work, maybe it won't. But, Yeah, that's kind of developed the longer I've been doing it. I think at the beginning I wasn't specifically doing it for that, but now, yeah, I am.

Andy Gott: I think the ability to switch between those mindsets is probably quite a useful technique to have, but I certainly err on the punter mindset for sure.

DJ Paulette: Oh yeah, I mean, I think that keeps it fresh anyway. I think if you only ever buy music for work, then you could actually really shoot yourself in the foot because you're not actually looking for stuff you could get into playing one kind of music what keeps the set fresh is when you play that thing which people don't expect you to.

Andy Gott: Yes. 

DJ Paulette: keeps your set, particularly if you're not a producer. So I can't load my sets with my own music. [00:06:00] So I've got to really do something different with the music that I buy. That is everybody else's in order to make that sound my own. Do you see what I'm saying?

It's like you kind of have to create a world. Out of other people's music that sounds like your world, not their world.

Andy Gott: Yeah, and that's one of the most magical parts of DJing, I think, which attracts so many people to both DJing and to the dance floor.

DJ Paulette: Yeah, absolutely. I like to play music that makes people dance. So for me, I'm listening and thinking, does it make me dance? And if it doesn't make me dance, if I can't drop to it when I'm playing it in my office I'm not playing it,

it's that simple.

It really is that simple.

Andy Gott: Paulette, were you one of eight? 

DJ Paulette: Yes, I Not were, am.

Andy Gott: are, sorry, you are one of eight, yes. So you grew up as one of eight in Manchester, and I am dying to know what music was going on in that house.

DJ Paulette: [00:07:00] Everything. Absolutely everything from jazz. My mum was playing everything from Mahalia Jackson, Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald, Diana Washington Ertha Kitt. Gladys Knight Shirley Bassey, Frank Sinatra, you know, my mum really brought a lot of the female, really strong female energy into the house with music.

You know, thinking about it, her record collection is really powerfully female. Aretha Franklin, you know, I, I, I've, my love of Aretha Franklin really comes from my mum. . My dad loved music, couldn't carry a song.

in a paper bag. And my mum's the singer. So you know, my mum was the one that was buying records. My mum was the first one to buy Purple Rain

Andy Gott: Ugh.[00:08:00] 

DJ Paulette: in the house My mum was the first person to buy the Purple Rain album know, she's not really in popular music anymore, 

but up until her 60s and I would say maybe 70s she was still really current with the music, She kind of gets things through us, for the rest of the family, my sister Rhonda was into Northern Soul, that's the collection I was getting off her. Jennifer was into 60s music, The Beatles The Stones. She was also into a lot of prog rock, Genesis, Supertramp all those things I have randomly absorbed.

Andy Gott: And also Sparks. Sparks came from Jenny and Roxy Music came from Jenny. My love of David Bowie comes from sitting in the living room with Alicia and listening to all her Bowie albums incredibly eclectic,

you've 

got the

DJ Paulette: Yeah, it was everything, everything.

Elizabeth was into Tina Marie Earth, Wind and Fire, Audrey Brooks, [00:09:00] Stevie Wonder and then when Paula got into music she was bringing all the b boy stuff in, so Afrika Bambaataa, and you know, it Two sisters, high noon, she was bringing all that, and then the funk and the jazz, so Paula is just the most incredible jazz dancer.

So she was bringing all that music home as well, so, I mean, there was literally Everything you could think of, and then I bought all the punk and weird stuff in. So I was like Cabaret Voltaire, Early Human League, Depeche Mode Gary Newman, John Fox, Ultravox Deutsch Amerikanische Freundschaft .

You know, public image, sex pistols Susie and the Banshees, that's when I went off on my own because I wanted to do something different to what my sisters, I mean even I like King Kurt, Rockabilly, [00:10:00] the Kramps was mine so there was everything in the house.

Andy Gott: Paint me a scene of the Manchester that you were first going out dancing in yourself. What was Paulette looking for then and what did she find?

DJ Paulette: I was looking for a good dance to electronic music. When I started going out to clubs, I was a New Romantic one week, a Gary Neumann look alike another week, a Roxy Music fan the next week. Like, I was, I was like, we didn't have the Blitz Club in Manchester, but we had an equivalent which was Pips, and I went there religiously.

Every week, maybe two or three times a week until it

Andy Gott: And how old were you at this

DJ Paulette: Fifteen.

Andy Gott: Yep.

DJ Paulette: We did it young, we started young in those days. I I was into the dance of it. I was into the Lindsey Kemp of it, you know, so I was [00:11:00] into Kate Bush, I was into David Bowie, so when we were on those dance floors in the 80s, you didn't just kind of do a two step shuffle if you were dancing to a David Bowie record, you were David Bowie.

You suddenly became David Bowie. David Bowie, so we were miming to the tracks or we were dancing like David or we were dancing like Kate you know, we assumed the person, we assume the personality and we embodied the track.

that's very much the reason why when I'm DJing now, I'm listening to records. I have a way of communicating that music in the booth, which is different to how other people do it. it's almost like I'm signing it. I try to communicate the music. in dance. I always try to tell a story.

Every set that I play has a beginning, a middle and an end. 

when [00:12:00] I get into the place, I know what story I want to tell. if people listen to the lyrics, they'll get it. It works on lots of different levels. So it works on the dance of it. It's going to make you move.

But if you don't dance and you just listen to the tracks, you will get the message too, because it's working on all of those levels. That's the way my brain works, you know, so not everybody's like that, you know, to lots of other people, it's just a song. But I'm message led. I listen to the lyrics.

if I want people to do something, will play them the 

Andy Gott: the message. 

DJ Paulette: them what to do.

Andy Gott: Yes. Do you, even to this day, get like a little buzz when someone might come up to you after a gig and say, that song you played was incredible because of X, Y, Z, and if they call out, you know the lyrics, it's like yes, I got through to 

DJ Paulette: Yeah, absolutely that. And that is when I go, Wow, it worked, because people are listening. I get surprised, a lot of the times when I'm playing, and [00:13:00] sometimes I'll be thinking, Oh, you know, is this working? You know, I can't really tell. And then I'll come off, and people will say that thing, oh, I loved it when you played that record, or what was that tune?

Or I'll get people asking me things on Instagram, like, to ID a track, through the lyrics and I'll be like, Oh, sick, sick. They got it. They got it. And I love it when that happens.

Andy Gott: Yeah, that's what it's all about. That's the magic. 

DJ Paulette: It's the magic The magic is in the message.

Andy Gott: That's the quote. That's the quote. You Are a legendary DJ, not just in the UK, DJ Paulette, but across Europe, across the world. You were one

DJ Paulette: little pockets of excellence. 

Andy Gott: two female resident DJs at the Hacienda, and which, for anyone listening, if they're not sure what the Hacienda is, but I Pretty sure most people know what it is. It's taken on this mythical presence in the UK and Europe from my point of view, a time and a [00:14:00] place where the center of the dance floor in the UK was at the Hacienda where music was happening was there.

And now for you to be one of just two female resident DJs, but not only that, but DJing at the only queer club night at the Hacienda.

DJ Paulette: Yes. It is massive. I mean, it's such a massive thing to happen anyway because I always try and contextualize this for people when we say that it was the only gay night in This huge mythical club in Manchester. People hear that with a 2023, 2024 ear, But if you go back to the history of it, we're talking about 1991, 1992, when being anything queer or gay was a stigma.

It was

taboo. 

You, exactly, you get your head kicked in. It wasn't [00:15:00] cool to say you were gay. You ran a massive risk of aggression. on top of that, just legally, the age of consent for same sex. was 21. The age for entry to a club was 18. So when you think about that and you're putting on a gay night in the biggest club in Manchester where people can get in when they're 18 and do things same sex that are actually illegal,

Andy Gott: mm

DJ Paulette: we were flying in the face of everything and saying we're out, we're proud.

Get used to it, and this is a space, as well, that is safe for this to happen. also, to contextualise it, I'll say that Flesh happened in a time where we were coming, sort of, towards the tail end of the AIDS [00:16:00] crisis.

Andy Gott: Mm-Hmm.

DJ Paulette: All the advertising had been really negative. It was a queer disease. It was catching.

Nobody knew how to deal with it. So nobody wanted to touch anyone if they were queer or gay. this is why, we were Queer Anything was kind of made the focus for this disease. And the advertising for it was really dark, it was really negative. And what Flesh did was turn that all completely on its head and say, we're not gonna hide away. We're gonna be here in the biggest club in Manchester, in this club which has got all this international heat around it. And we're gonna say It's queer up north.

So anybody that wants to come and party who is queer and party safely, it's [00:17:00] queer up north. 

And, you know, certainly in terms of the North and Manchester, it was at the forefront of this. You can be young and queer and cool. And also what it did was it joined the tribes together. So you got the men and the women in the same place at the same time. You got black, white, Asian, everybody all together, male, female, all together.

And for the first time really ever it created a space and A club night that straight people wanted to go to so much that they would kiss their best mates in the queue to prove that they were gay so they could get in. Never happened before. 

Andy Gott: Were you aware at the time of how political it was or has that become much more clear with hindsight in previous

DJ Paulette: We were aware of the politics of it, most certainly, because, [00:18:00] you know, there was a reason why it was on a Wednesday, not a Saturday.

Andy Gott: Yeah, sure. 

DJ Paulette: We didn't have a load of gays traipsing through a city centre which was laden with heterosexual homophobic people. Wednesday night was a safe night for this to happen.

so in that respect, we were very clear about how this space could come to being. At the beginning, we couldn't have had it on a Saturday, but eventually, Paradise Factory did that and created a club that was gay every night of the week.

eventually that happened, but Flesh had to happen first in order for that to happen next.

So we were aware of the politics But the politics have become actually more pronounced and stronger in stepping back from it and looking at it and going, Shit,

Andy Gott: Yeah, of course. of course. 



[00:19:00] Yeah. And I've seen the outfits that you were wearing while you were 

DJ Paulette: Yeah, And there was a very good reason why I wore an enormous dries a bone duster coat to go to work. I wasn't walking through the streets dressed like that. talking to people they might get changed in the Bridgewater Street car park, so we'd be like casual.

then there'd be this Changing, disrobing in the car park with people, like, putting the clothes on. Some people would just, rock up, dressed like whatever. But you can ask any of the drags working on that night would tell you they ran with their life in their hands to get across town to the club.

Andy Gott: By the time this episode is published, your first book, Welcome to the Club, will have been published a few weeks ago, so if you're listening now, you need to go and buy it immediately.

DJ Paulette: yeah, do. 

Andy Gott: I've been thinking a lot about the [00:20:00] title. Why did you land on that title?

Welcome to the club.

DJ Paulette: Because it, it is kind of a dual edged title. in one way, I'm talking to you. Welcome to the club, as in welcome to my club. I'm throwing the doors open to 30 years of experience working within the music industry. But then you know, it is a double edged sword because I wasn't always welcome.

And still, you know, there are, there are reasons and challenges why. As far as I've come, there are some ways that I'm still not the most welcome person in the room, So it's a bit sarcastic



DJ Paulette: looking at whether I am or not and whether I have been or not and what those issues are and how we can take it forward.

So that's why it's called Welcome to the Club. 

it's a good book. It's a good [00:21:00] read and I want people to feel that euphoria and that joy But I'm also welcoming people to question the things as well. So all are welcome, everything. Opinions, you name it.

Andy Gott: And 

also, saying welcome,

saying welcome isn't always the same as being welcoming, so it's really making people, you know, question it's one thing to say something, but are you doing the work in creating these spaces or creating 

the welcoming 

DJ Paulette: Yes. 

Andy Gott: feel welcomed?

Absolutely that. And that is why, in the book, I do talk about the beginning. Were we aware of the politics of it? And yes, we were aware of the politics. And the welcome, is To really tell people that we weren't welcome in the beginning.

DJ Paulette: Pride has been going for so long the struggle is real. Glastonbury didn't have Block 9 until [00:22:00] 2007, 2008. know, and until that time, Gay festivals were there, and straight festivals were there, and they did not really engage each other.

you didn't get gay tents, at straight festivals. For years, for years, years, years, never the twain should meet. 

It was like separate worlds. I DJed at gay clubs and I DJed at straight clubs. It was very rare.

That they were mixed.

This is the welcome. When did we become welcome and are we even now? 

Andy Gott: This entire podcast purpose is to try and understand the relationship that queer people have with music. 

You have played in and created countless queer spaces in your career and You know, I live in Australia now, but Manchester's nightlife was incredibly formative for me when I was at university there. Nights like Homo Electric and Bollox, they were very, very special [00:23:00] places to me. How do you feel today in your career, at your age, in queer music spaces?

What resonance and importance do you think they hold for you today?

DJ Paulette: I think they're even more important than ever. Just simply because it's the place where I probably feel most comfortable. They're a lot more diverse. They're definitely a lot more diverse. I know when I play at Homoblock, and this is no, you know, no antagonism intended, it's just a statement of fact.

Even in terms of, like, the green room or whatever, There are a lot more women and non binary people playing for the gay nights than there are for the straight nights. And it's interesting that there is still That split where you will get straight people at the gay nights, but you will not get gay [00:24:00] people at this straight nights

Andy Gott: Mm.

DJ Paulette: So we do do nights for absolutely everybody the doors thrown open gay straight You know, you name it But the straight nights are still very straight and I I can see

Andy Gott: yeah,

DJ Paulette: you know, I am just one person that manages to straddle the two

But I think musically it is still really important. Because if we don't do it, then they won't do it.

Andy Gott: So we're kind of trying to set an example.

yeah. And what a glorious example you set.

DJ Paulette: yeah, but you run the risk because to move fully into that world you're not 100 percent safe.

And this is what I've seen towards the end of the last year you can't just have a straight festival and bolt on a load of gay performers and gay entertainers and then have them bottled on the stage.

if you're going to [00:25:00] invite us to play. your crowd needs to be understanding of who we are and why we're there, we're not just window dressing, we're not just a tick box for you. So we have to double down on the message.

Andy Gott: Okay, on to your incredible selections. So, track

DJ Paulette: My incredible seductions, which I kept changing every two seconds, like, No, I want this. No, I want this. Let's do it

Andy Gott: It's a hard question, it's a hard task for my guests, I feel sorry for them almost. 

DJ Paulette: you don't. You set the 

question, you 

Evil, moustache twiddling, bad person. 

Andy Gott: What track did you pick and why? Oh

DJ Paulette: Run Free. [00:26:00] And I picked that because I remember, playing it. Like every single month at Flesh, I played this record and I still play this record. You know, every, downtempo Bar set, funky Soul set, it's a get outta jail free card.

everybody. Loves this record. It is the sing along record next to Ain't Nobody which people always get wrong People always get that drop wrong, but they always come in too early. Everybody knows this record and they always come in too early.

It's like What?

Andy Gott: gosh. That's

DJ Paulette: but it is the sing along record par excellence I can drop the fader when I'm playing Candy Stutton and everyone is still singing. From the first days of playing it at Flesh, it has always been that record. [00:27:00] But for me, it had another resonance because I was playing it at the time when I was splitting up from my husband.

I was really getting into fully exploring my sexuality as well and the lyrics just really resonated with me because you know, just the story that it tells in a way of, you know, What's the sense in sharing this one and only life Ending up just another lost and lonely wife 

and every time I play that record, I think about it. it is kind of my life, but then not. young 

hearts run free. I was living it! And every time I hear it, I remember I lived that. and I got through it. And, and I mean, it's so sad. It's heartbreaking. You count up the years and they will be filled with tears.[00:28:00] 

Yeah, they were. I mean, it's really sad. but also, the way Candy sings that song, it's very positive as well. Young hearts run free. They'll never be hung up, hung up like my man and me. Go on, go into the world, experience what you need to experience. don't tie yourself to somebody that's gonna finish you off.

So yeah, that record means a lot to me.

Andy Gott: I've always loved that song and there's something that I love that you have picked up straight away which is in such a euphoric, happy anthem, there is a strong thread of sadness

DJ Paulette: Yeah, a real theme of melancholy and darkness. I love that 

Andy Gott: and I love that too. It makes them more colourful and more threads in the fabric 

DJ Paulette: [00:29:00] Yeah, it makes it real.

It makes it real life, this is us. This is, also the gay experience where part of it is hidden. I mean, there were two tracks I could have chosen. either Candy Stanton or it was Glory Gaynor. I am what I am.

But I went for Candy because Candy is more, I mean, both of those records are really important to me. But candy is candy.

Andy Gott: And there's that one line. It's my time now, just one crack at life. And you, that gets me, but that, that was you, you know, you have, you were like, I've got one more crack and you went for it.

DJ Paulette: exactly. . 

Andy Gott: So tell me about the album that you picked.

DJ Paulette: Now the album that I picked, I have to look at my notes here because

Andy Gott: it.

DJ Paulette: he, was a different kind of boy. The album is Living Proof by Sylvester James, born 1947, and he [00:30:00] became known as Sylvester. this album was really special, it's a live album, Living Proof, and it was performed at the San Francisco War Memorial Opera House.

Now to get Anything, like, I mean, you, this is 1979 when this album was made and it is pre AIDS crisis

And yet there are still those attitudes about gay and drag and cross dressing and transitioning people So Sylvester takes his music into the opera house, performed with a big orchestra and with Martha Wash and Isora Rhodes, Two Tons of Fun, on vocals. And His producer, Patrick Cowley.

Andy Gott: Yes. Patrick Cowley.

DJ Paulette: [00:31:00] He was on keyboards. they performed Sylvester tunes. With an orchestra. Oh, I mean, oh my god, wouldn't this just be so special? I wish I'd been there. I mean, I, I, I, if you listen to this album, and I know, I, I, I was listening to it again last night, and sent it to Luke Howard and Prosima Akim, my good friends, We all said, this album reduces me to tears. It is so deep. But it is so beautiful because you hear Sylvester singing at his absolute Best. Absolute best. He's having fun on stage. This album is a treat.

You will not hear this anywhere. he [00:32:00] used this concert to promo his upcoming album. So there were four tracks from the album, Stars. that were premiered, but also he made an announcement that Stars was going to be the last album that he made which was going to be disco oriented, so there was that kind of

Potency to the performance as well because you were hearing the beginning but also the end of an era for Sylvester and Halfway through the gig which I think is really beautiful the mayor of San Francisco Got her aid to award Sylvester the key to the city. So it's like also very special and poignant For that reason, and she proclaimed March 11th to be Sylvester Day.

Which I think is really beautiful, and I didn't know that, so if you didn't know that, you can join me in the ignorance of it, and also the, yay, there is actually a [00:33:00] Sylvester Day, so, we should celebrate Sylvester Day, which is March 11th. I encourage everybody to celebrate Sylvester Day, because what also I learned about it was, his record label, Fantasy, ripped him off.

And he had to take the guy to court, and when he took the guy to court, he was awarded something like 250, 000, which in the 80s is a lot of money,

Andy Gott: Well,

DJ Paulette: and he was only paid 20, 000. Sylvester never actually got his royalties for his body of work. But, and this is why I say people go back and listen to Sylvester music, please do, listen to as much as you can, because in his will he left all his future royalties to two HIV AIDS charities.

And so every [00:34:00] Any penny that's made from Sylvester music is paid to these two charities, so buy everything, he is still being an activist from beyond the grave, But back to this album, I will point you to my favourite tracks. Blackbird, which is a cover of the Beatles tune, and it's a live version, if you listen to the interplay between Sylvester and Isora and Martha.

It is just absolutely gorgeous. And the story behind Blackbird, for the Beatles even,

this is when you get to know about the history of the Beatles as they were[00:35:00] super political. This song is about civil rights

Andy Gott: Yep.

DJ Paulette: They were told that they should not put this tune out and they did, McCartney being McCartney, he,

Andy Gott: Paul McCartney is a very powerful and stubborn person they put this track out and it is, if you listen to the lyrics you will really get this sense of what the civil rights, you you know, was all about just hearing Sylvester sing that song, and he does say, I heard this song and it's by the Beatles and she says ,

DJ Paulette: which is just gorgeous.

So, I recommend that [00:36:00] track. And then there's a medley, which starts off with a Diana Ross track. he goes in and sings some Of the most beautiful, disco, soul, R& B music that you could possibly hear. I've just remembered something from a Studio 54 documentary, when Sylvester did this concert, he took a bowl of glitter and threw it all over the orchestra to get them in the vibe for performing this music he wanted it to be funky and vibrant and soulful and uplifting he just covered everybody in glitter and then he went right now we can go on and i love that story i absolutely love that story[00:37:00] 

so yeah, that's Sylvester, Living Proof. I point you also to the tracks You Are My Friend, 

Andy Gott: LaBelle.

DJ Paulette: Sylvester's version here is gorgeous.

Andy Gott: Yes.

DJ Paulette: and the two disco versions at the end. You've got Dance Dance Disco Heat, which really whips the crowd up. You can hear the crowd's response to it.

It's beautiful it being a live album. This is one gig that I wish I'd been at. I was 13 when this happened and I really wish I'd been able to time travel and be just sat there, front row, just wetting my knickers over.

And the version, the version at the end of You Make Me Feel [00:38:00] Mighty Real, when they get the crowd to sing along, this is what I was telling you.

when you get those moments where the crowd is so engaged and everyone's in tune singing answer backs and then it joins with the choir weeping. 

Andy Gott: it's 

DJ Paulette: is just 

religious, beautiful, call it what you will, but this album is seriously underrated.

Go back to it, add it to your playlist, if you can find it on vinyl, buy it.

And remember that all future royalties for Sylvester go to HIV AIDS charities. 

Andy Gott: I'm never gonna forget that. I'm really glad that you taught me that fact. I'm, I'm a little bit ashamed that I didn't know it before, because I consider myself a Sylvester fan, but that's such a beautiful fact, 

[00:39:00] I love all of Sylvester's work with Patrick Cowley, especially, I Need Somebody to Love Tonight. But when you told me to listen to this album, it's transcendent. I was like, how have I not heard this before? actually can't add anything to what you said.

DJ Paulette: I mean, even, even from the beginning, because they delay walking onto stage in the overture when they're playing through all those little teasers of the track, it's

Andy Gott: Hahaha.

DJ Paulette: literally would have been wetting my knickers. I love Sylvester anyway. Everything that Sylvester represents to me in terms of that gay journey

Andy Gott: Yes.

DJ Paulette: That's just incredible. He was totally [00:40:00] comfortable with being a man, but also enjoyed cross dressing. 

He is the perfect embodiment to me in many ways of being who you are, whoever that is, just be yourself and admitting it.

Andy Gott: that powerful female energy emanated from this person who was so comfortable being a man, being a woman, being whatever. And what an impact that his life had. 

DJ Paulette: Sylvester for me. Yes, thank you very much. Add to basket.

Andy Gott: Add to basket! Paulette, you've got some corkers today. I really like the cut of your jib. You've got some great phrasing!

DJ Paulette: one for me. That's one for me. I must use that one more as well. I for me. 

Andy Gott: The 

artist. Who did you pick and why?

DJ Paulette: You know, maybe this is an obvious one. Maybe it's not, but the artist for me is Grace Beverly [00:41:00] Jones Also known as Grace Jones. So Sylvester was born in 1947.

Grace Jones was born in 1948. I'd never really investigated or compared them before. But they're very similar people. And Grace is Jamaican. I'm Jamaican. My family are from St. Andrews. Hers are from St. Catharines. And she was born in Jamaica.

Left Jamaica and was brought up in the States she became a model really early on and was photographed by Hal McNewton, Guy Borden, Jean Baptiste Mondino Became part of the fabric of the Studio 54, that family Steve Rubel Ian Schrager, that family of uber celebrities that was established in the, late 70s, early 80s.

my [00:42:00] first awareness of Grace Jones. was her performance of Private Life on Top of the Pops.

Andy Gott: Stunning.

DJ Paulette: And this was 1980. there is actually footage of this performance on YouTube, so I'm directing everybody to have a look at this. This is a young Grace Jones flat up, absolutely pristine haircut. Makeup, beautiful, big red lips, androgynous suit. Nothing underneath the jacket. She's holding a microphone and she's got evening gloves, and she's smoking a cigarette on stage for Top of the Pops.

Andy Gott: Mm.

DJ Paulette: That blew my mind. I was 13 when I was watching [00:43:00] that. I've always been the different one, I've always been The one on the outside of my family, bit the black sheep, or call it what you will.

But I've always been, you know, my sister's called me the weirdo. And seeing Grace Jones on top of the pops, for me, was just like, a big lightbulb moment, I want to be like her, and I am going to look like her. I got my hair cut straight away. Flat top, sides gone.

I was at school. I went to a Catholic grammar school. They freaked when I went in school the next day. what have you done to your hair? copied everything that Grace did. I bought all the records with my paper round money. I bought whatever I could get my hands on. she just became this person that was a major influence in how I formed [00:44:00] my identity of being a black woman growing up To be a black female performer on Top of the Pops, you had to be Diana Ross, Tina Turner, big hair, big shoulder pads, lots of makeup, sparkly dresses, But I'm not a girly girl, so there wasn't anyone really that I could hook onto and say, I can be like that.

And then when Grace came along, it was like, thank

you sweet baby Jesus, because it does exist. You can be androgynous and black you can love and actually look fantastic. Wearing a men's suit with nothing underneath it. And then what I've seen over the years is this woman become bigger than anything you could ever imagine for a [00:45:00] black person to be.

She's in James Bond scaling the Eiffel Tower. She's in a Citroën ad. With the, you know, with the mouth.

Absolutely incredible

Andy Gott: I feel like with most of these enormous legends and artists, there's still a through line that you can look back and see who their artistic descendants are in a way, and that's just our culture, but with Grace Jones, I'm like, there was no one before

you.

You are 

DJ Paulette: anyone. She was the thing. that is why I say she has that resonance now. and certainly in terms of my career, there wasn't anyone when I started DJing, but Grace Jones was that person who was that difference, who embraced that difference, and did it really well.

She did it first, and she did it best. And everybody else sort of followed. 

And that is, she's [00:46:00] 75 now. and I posted the thing from the South Bank where she entered like Cleopatra on the shoulders of everybody and then she's hula hooped all the way through.

I can't even hula hoop, I can't keep a hula hoop up to save my life. And she can hula hoop and sing all the way through a track. she's in her 

seventies. 

Andy Gott: hand. Yes,

DJ Paulette: Excuse me.

Andy Gott: yes,

DJ Paulette: Like, seriously, bow the fuck down and you can bleep that.

Andy Gott: I'm not

DJ Paulette: Bow down.

Andy Gott: not bleeping it. No.

woman, for me, is my number one Paulette, you are just such a joy. I didn't think I could love Grace Jones anymore. I don't need to be brought on the Grace Jones train. I'm already there. But somehow, like, yeah.

I've got a real soft spot for sadly, the last album [00:47:00] that she's recorded so far. I hope that she has one more in her. I'm sure she does, but Hurricane from 

DJ Paulette: Yeah, it was incredible.

Andy Gott: Incredible album. I think it took her like 10 years to make but it's so biographical and the music is diverse she works with these producers who know her so well I go back to that album time and time again, but of course she's got this enormous body of work

DJ Paulette: Yeah. And you know, I think the thing with Grace is that she has also moved on with doing the South Bank shows and curating arts events She is becoming, bigger, you know, that's inspiring because for any woman in the creative industries ageism is rife.

When you hit your 40s. You're supposed to think you're too old and this is [00:48:00] my crusade as a female in the Broadcasting and DJing music industry why should we have to stop when men don't and grace for me? Is that person I am 75 and I am going to stop when I Say.

I'm going to stop. Nobody tells me what to do, when to do it. That, is a massive Inspiration. It means that box of age that people would like us to go in, that box that makes us safe.

We do not have to sit or stand in it. We can kick the fuck out of it. And that is who Grace Jones is to me. Massive inspiration.

Andy Gott: Paulette, what would be your top three go to Grace Jones tracks?

DJ Paulette: Oh god, anything off the Nightclubbing album. That's my absolute favourite album. I mean, Slave to the Rhythm is an obvious one, [00:49:00] and Private Life because that's the first time I was aware of her. 

can I just say The Hurricane album?

Andy Gott: You can say the Hurricane album. Five out of five. The stories you picked for those selections were what dreams were made of. When I think about a dream episode for this podcast, tick the box.

So, thank you so much for that. You've put in the research, you've written the notes, and it's been really special. Thank you.

DJ Paulette: It's an absolute pleasure. I've loved it. It's really good to talk about music and to talk about what music means to me and what it's meant in terms of my journey. My journey as A person. as a queer person, definitely. You know, because both of them, Grace and Sylvester, are activists.

They have, you know, they have always, always, always banged the [00:50:00] drum about gay rights.

Andy Gott: Yep.

DJ Paulette: Sylvester definitely has been a very out and proud queer person.



DJ Paulette: those kind of influences are really important for people, even for me now, I've had all the way through my life because I like boys and girls, so I have been not considered queer enough for my entire life, Now, at the age I am, I'm making more of a point of talking about my queerness, because it does exist, it is real, if one person hears that message and thinks it's okay, then It's important to share that message and that is why I do it certainly Grace and Sylvester were those people for me.

Andy Gott: DJ Paulette, you are queer and thank you very much for your tracks.

DJ Paulette: Oh, you're very welcome. Thank you.

Andy Gott (2): You can follow DJ Paulette at app DJ Paulette. And you can [00:51:00] order her debut book. Welcome to the club at all. Good booksellers. 

And the spirit of this podcast. Go independent baby. Tracks of our careers is presented and produced by me. Andy Gott entirely on unceded, Gadigal and the. Aboriginal land. You can email me your thoughts, recommendations or gay ramblings to tracksofourqueers@gmail.com. See you next time.