Paul Southwell, musician

In 1975, a very young and very gay trio of musicians were signed to Jet Records, a London label headed up by, well, Sharon Osbourne's dad. Handbag regaled audiences with outrageous on-stage simulated sex and snogging, before recording their debut album... which sadly remained unreleased, due to the stifling and fearful climate of the time.

Earlier this year, frontman Paul Southwell dusted off his copies of the album, digitised them, and uploaded them to streaming services. A flurry of global interest ensued, including this article from The Guardian that I was shared.
 
Paul now lives in Australia with his husband, and joins me to discuss his fascinating career, alongside music by Aretha Franklin, David Bowie, and Steely Dan.

You can learn about Paul's current band here, and listen to Handbag on Spotify here.

Tracks of Our Queers is produced, presented and edited by Andy Gott.

You can listen to our Spotify playlist, Selections from Tracks of Our Queers, and find Aural Fixation in your favourite podcast provider.

Transcript

Paul Southwell

Andy: [00:00:00] Hello. Welcome to Tracks of our Queers. My name is Andy Gott, and each episode I'll chat to a fascinating queer person about one song, one album, and one artist that have soundtracked their life.

 About a year ago, I was sent an interview from The Guardian which told a tale I could not believe I was reading for the first time. In 1975, post Ziggy Stardust, but well before the likes of Bronski Beat or Frankie Goes to Hollywood, a trio of three punk rockers were performing across London, wearing their homosexuality proudly on their leather sleeves.

 Signed by Sharon Osbourne's father to Jet Records, Handbag were unfortunately a shade too gay and too early for the 70s, and their only recorded album was sadly shelved. Their frontman, Paul Southwell, went on to soundtrack the groundbreaking documentary David is Homosexual, before working as a teacher through Section 28.[00:01:00]

 In a glorious twist of fate, that 1975 handbag album was dusted off and shared on streaming services earlier this year, and I was thrilled to sit down with Paul for this episode. If you enjoy this episode, please subscribe, leave a rating or review in your app, or even better, tell a friend. Tracks of Our Queers is a totally independent production and a labor of love, so if you would like to help keep the podcast ad free, you can show your support by buying me a coffee via the link in the show notes. Every penny goes to episode production.

 Over to Paul.

Hi Paul. Welcome to Tracks of Our Queers.

Paul: Hello, Andy.

Andy: And I would love to begin by asking where did you grow up?

Paul: Well, I was born in Accrington, in Lan. In 1951 and I grew up in Lancaster. I grew up in Akron. Stayed there until I was 19 when I moved to London 

Andy: [00:02:00] I've got a friend who is also from Aton, and she would call it aki.

Paul: Aki. Oh yeah, Yes, they do.

Andy: And what Was playing at home as you grew up? What was playing in your house?

Paul: Well, we always had music in the house. My mother loved you know, the radio, the radio was on obviously in the early fifties. It was pretty middle of the road stuff, you know, I can remember how much is that doggy in the window, et cetera. But of course, when American rock and roll came to England in the, probably late fifties I remember that blew my mind when I first heard little Richard Great Balls of fire and and some of the other, you know, great rock and roll songs.

It absolutely blew my mind. I thought, this is for me.

[00:03:00] With the music in the house, , I became a musician. And of course this would be the very early sixties Now the music in England was huge. The Beatles had just broken.

The Rolling Stones had broken. So it was a, a big scene for music. And of course being in, in Lancaster, which is so close to Liverpool, which was the heart of, of that, Music period. It was great. And so I got my first guitar when I was 11. By the time I was 12 I'd learned to play it and by the time I was probably 13, I was in a band and I was doing two or three gigs a week in the work in men's clubs and youth clubs and dance halls around well around Lancaster and Yorkshire.

So I was doing quite a lot of gigs. It was, it was great fun.

Andy: You were a child star.

Paul: I wouldn't say I was a child star, [00:04:00] but , I was, I was certainly working a lot. And I remember being young another group that was from Akron was called the Warriors. And the Warriors used to come and watch us rehearse and give us little tips and one of the mothers of the Warriors gave us their old suits.

 Their stage clothes and they were glitter suits. And you know, I, I felt great in this glitter suit, you know, with my bass guitar. And of course the warriors went on to become quite famous. The drummer, Ian Wallace he went on to join King Crimson, and so they, they became quite successful. But I remember these glitter suits. It's you know, a, an overriding memory of the the early sixties.

Andy: They sound absolutely fabulous. Tell me about the move to London. What sparked the move initially?

Paul: I suppose I wanted to become a professional musician. And really in Akron it's very limited. So I thought, well, it's time to move to London. I [00:05:00] was 19, I packed my bags and I got my guitar. I came and you know, set up house in London. 

Andy: And, and how old were you when you began to realize that you were, let's say, a little bit different from the other boys? When did you start to feel othered or different?

Paul: I think I always felt different, but I mean, I, I realized that I was gay when I was 10. And it dawned on me just one day. It just kind of came out the blue, you know? Oh. I'm gay and I thought, oh shit, this is gonna be a problem. this is gonna be a problem. You know, I lived in Lancaster. I was 10 years old.

Homosexuality was illegal, but of course I didn't know that at the time, but I knew it was completely wrong. So that's when I first realized that I was gay. Of course, I never felt any guilt about it. I never felt guilty or that being different. You know, I, I should be guilty.

I always [00:06:00] thought that being gay was right for me.

Andy: I wonder when you were moving to London to become a professional musician. Was it on your mind at all, the thought of maybe being more open about your sexuality in London?

Paul: Oh yeah, of course it was. I mean, I was I was 19 and still a virgin,

so of course I was desperate to get to London and explore homosexuality. And of course when I got there, this is 1971 then I met other gay people. There was a, an organization called the Gay Liberation Front, which of course I joined.

There was the campaign for homosexual equality, c h e. Again, I joined and you know, I found my tribe. I did, I found, you know, people who had the same feelings, obviously as me

Andy: Where did you find them? Where did you find your tribe? Where would you find that information?

Paul: from gay news. Gay news was a really important tool in the, in the early [00:07:00] seventies for bringing gay people together and advertise the clubs and the, the discos, et cetera. When I first got to London, some of the clubs were absolutely horrendous. I remember some of the clubs and you'd to go along to the club and you'd to actually knock on the door. And then there was a peephole. In the door, and they used to slide the door open and look at you, and if they liked the look of you, they'd let you in.

And if they didn't, obviously they didn't let you in. And I thought, this is really weird. This is strange. And I didn't take to that gay scene at all. But of course, Gay liberation. They were trying to make it more open. And so they used to have dances. They used to have Saturday night dances in, in town halls you know, there were lots of those sort of things going on, which.

Andy: on with

Paul: The gay Liberation front organized

Andy: In these scenes, you did find your tribe. Who were the kind of people that you connected with?[00:08:00]

Paul: well because I was a musician and at the time I was not only going to go bars, obviously I was, I was forming my band handbag. 

Andy: And when was handbag officially formed? What year was that?

Paul: probably about 1973.

Andy: And in that kind of environment, in that industry, do you ever remember feeling hesitant in expressing your. Gayness, you know, did you ever try and hide the gayness or were you wearing it?

Paul: I wore it unfortunately because it absolutely destroyed my career. . I couldn't hide it. And the songs I were writing that handbag recorded they were. , they were very gay songs, you know, with one called Closet Queen with another called Leather Boys.

Andy: [00:09:00] Boys.

Paul: So I didn't hide it, but I knew that most people did.

And the only other person that I knew that didn't hide it was Tom Robinson.

Andy: You were signed to Jet Records, I believe.

Paul: we were what happened was handbag you know, we got together, we learned the songs, we practiced, and then we started to do gigs. And of course we were gigging quite a lot all over London. The pub circuit was big. Then, and there were lots of gigs. So we used to gig two or three nights a week, and then eventually we'd played the speakeasy and. We were pretty outrageous. We weren't like many other bands in, in London, you know, we wore outrageous clothes, we wore outrageous makeup, we kissed on stage. We did a lot of things that other bands didn't do. Anyway, the day after we played the speakeasy, we had Don Arden on the phone.

Well, it was L [00:10:00] O'Leary actually, who was the manager of the speakeasy, said there were various record labels that wanted to sign us. And so there was, I think there was c b s, there was another one and there was Don or, and Jet Records. And of course, unfortunately we chose to go with Don Arden and Jet Records,

and they signed us, I think it was probably in 1975. 

Andy: And why unfortunately,

Paul: Well, they didn't release the album the album, you know, didn't didn't see the light of day until about six months ago. So we recorded this, this first album,

and of course, Don Arden was notorious at the time. I mean, he was a big impresario and he was important in the music business, but his reputation was he was dangerous.

You know, and of course there was Sharon Arden as well, who's now married to Ozzie,

sharon Osborne. And her brother David Osborne. He was he was all part of the scene. So we recorded the album [00:11:00] and well, it's out now on Spotify as the jet sessions.

It was shelved, you know, eventually, Jet Records and Don Orden decided they were gonna drop us before they would release the album. I think there was a lot of pressure from the music business. 

The music business didn't like people to be out. They liked people to be in the closet. They liked to be able to seldom as something else. So unfortunately, the album was shelved and jet Records, duly dropped us.

Andy: that journey you explained where the album was finally released on streaming six months ago. That's how I discovered the story of handbag, the band. And it struck me immediately as, it's the idea. An album like this being made by these, you know, provocative, controversial, outrageous gay musicians. Almost a decade before bands like Brosky Beat and Frankie goes to Hollywood, which now live in that pop [00:12:00] cannon as groundbreaking gay musicians and they very much were, but you were putting this kind of material out, or while you were trying to put the material out 10 years prior.

And to me it suggests the sense of what could have been. It's like an almost alternate universe.

Paul: Well, that's how I feel as well. I mean, who knows what might have happened had. Of released the album. You know, it might have been successful, it might not have been successful, but hey, my life would've changed drastically. 

Andy: Now, when you were on that stage and you were doing outrageous things and you were dressed out outrageously what was the impact you were intending to have on your audience? Mm-hmm.

Paul: in, even in London, especially in pubs in Pub Rock. I mean, most pub rock at the time was denim [00:13:00] jeans dirty T-shirt and, you know, and, and doing blue songs.

And then we came along, in glitter, kissing each other with a lot of makeup on. They were, you know, it shocked a lot of people.

Andy: of people. I think it's absolutely fabulous. But were you ever fearful of like violence, like the audience turning on you? 

Paul: No.

No, I don't think we were. I don't think any of us were. I think if the audience had turned on us, we'd have probably turned back on them and hit 'em with the guitars or something. Although, who knows? I mean, who knows? We'd, we'd have probably run

Andy: I would've ran.

Fantastic. So what was the track that you picked and why?

Paul: Right. The track I picked was Aretha Franklin. Who I think is a, a magnificent artist. I mean, I just think her voice is just superb. Her piano playing is absolutely fantastic and it's one of her early songs. And the reason I picked this was because it was released in 1967 [00:14:00] and in 1967, of course, the the British government partly decriminalized homosexuality. 

And the song was written by Otis Redin, allegedly who are, again, I I, I was a great fan of, and it's respect.

Andy: It's a fantastic track and of course it's one of those songs which everyone knows who doesn't know Respect by Aretha Franklin , absolutely. Her signature song. You mentioned that it was allegedly written by Otis Redding. I only just discovered that myself today. I always thought it was an Aretha original, but it was apparently written by him.

I listened to the original. Does it have a bar on Aretha's? It's, I, I don't want that version. Now you mentioned you were a fan of Otis Threadings, so do you remember knowing the original and then Aretha's version?

Paul: I didn't know the original version, but I [00:15:00] did like some of the Otis Redding stuff and I did see Otis Redding on his tour of the UK in, well, it must have been mid sixties maybe. And he was a great performer. he was top-notch.

Andy: So what was it like then in 1967 when homosexuality was decriminalized?

Paul: Well, I knew that when, when it was announced on the news, I knew that that was important. But of course, I wasn't that old. I was, I'd only be 15, 16. And it, of course, decriminalized when I say it was partly decriminalized because it was still illegal to have homosexual relationships under the age of 21.

 But I knew that it it, it was something that was going to change my life and it was gonna be very important and it was.

Andy: I think a lot of people take respect by Aretha as a [00:16:00] fabulously feminist song and flipping the tables there and, you know, a woman demanding respect for want of a better word, from a man. Do you see any connection there as a gay person living in that time?

Paul: I think there's some commonality between the American Civil Rights Movement, the Black American civil right rights movement and gay liberation. . I don't think it's the same, but I, I certainly think there is some, some, you know, similarity.

Andy: What was the album that you picked and why?

Paul: album was Hunky Dory by David Bowie. Again, this was released in 1971 when I first moved to London, and I think that that was the beginning of the change. Certainly it was the beginning of the change of gay liberation. And I think [00:17:00] David Bowie helped, albeit in a strange way, with gay liberation.

I mean, in his previous album, the Man Who Sold the World, he'd he'd dressed up on the cover in a dress. which was quite revolutionary at the time, but on this Hunky Dory album, which was quite very successful. You know, some of the songs were, well, I think important particularly for gay people at the time because he was kind of pushing the boundaries, you know, he came out as being bisexual.

And so I think it really did push the boundaries. David Bowie certainly helped.

Andy: His legacy in making aspects of what I would now interpret as queer culture, making those aspects cool to. Entire generations of people who might not have seen them as cool [00:18:00] otherwise is undoubtable. And I think that legacy is amazing. 

I've had some interesting conversations um, big fans of David Bowie of. You tread the line of yes, he did come out as bisexual. I'm not sure if there's much on record of him having documented relationships with men, but I'm happy to be proven wrong there. But it's an interesting balance of how much someone takes on aspects of gay or queer culture without necessarily.

being gay or even bisexual themselves. I dunno if there's anything in there. I'm struggling to articulate that.

Paul: No, I, I think you articulated it well and I, again, I find that a little worrying you know, that somebody can use whether he was bisexual. I don't know. I mean, I know. Never met him. But you know, him using the bisexuality certainly pushed the barriers. So I'm grateful for him for that. But I, I hear what you're saying about you know, whether he did have [00:19:00] relationships with men.

I don't, I really dunno.

Andy: And I do think that's a perspective from the time that we are living in now. Whereas, I'm sure that perspective would be different 10, 20, 30 years ago. And it would change with, you know, what we deem what, what our societal norms are. Personally speaking, for me, I think that. . Why Deborah Bowie appeals to me and maybe a lot of other queer people is that masterful nature of changing appearance and image at whim depending on, you know, creative drive or what story he was trying to tell with his music.

Taps into that notion of weaken. Change ourselves to be whatever we want to be. And actually the only person who's in charge of that is us. And seeing him do that so masterfully over such a long period with [00:20:00] so many different characters is there's aspects of drag there. There's aspects of pulling on a different outfit and becoming a different character.

And I think a lot of queer people can tap into that. And even if they can't relate directly, they're impressed by.

Paul: I do agree. And he was very clever and not only did he do it with his looks and his costumes, but he also did it with the music as well. He changed the music and with each kind of. Metamorphosis. Some of the music I liked, some of it I didn't, but hey, he, he changed his music just like he changed the costumes.

Andy: do you have a favorite track or two from hunky dory?

Paul: I like changes. And I also like life on Mars.

Andy: Mm-hmm.

Paul: that Rick Wakeman, who was the keyboard player of Yes did a great job playing the piano [00:21:00] on life on Mars. I think it's outstanding.

Andy: Do you know if you were directly influenced by this music at this time when you were performing your own music with handbag?

Paul: Oh, I think we were influenced by David Bowie. Yes. Because in the handbag set we did mainly original songs, but we also did Some David Bowie covers not from the Hunky Dory album, but from the one later, which was Zi and the spiders from Mars.

Andy: That's a brilliant album.

Paul: Yeah, it was, and funny enough the, the article you were referring to in The Guardian there were comments underneath it, and somebody has seen us play the Marquee Club handbag. Play the Marquee Club in, oh, it must have been in 9 75. And this guy could remember that the songs that we'd played, I mean even, I couldn't remember what [00:22:00] we'd played, but he remembered, you know, that we'd covered David Bowie's, Ziggy and

It was very strange.

Andy: strange. Was it around the time that the album wasn't released, that the band broke?

Paul: Oh, no, 

we didn't break up. No, we carried on. After we'd been dropped by Jet records I was asked to do the music for a campaign for homosexual equality film called David is a.

Andy: Mm-hmm.

Paul: David is homosexual. It was actually called, not a homosexual which was it was an interesting project.

C h e had decided to do this film. They filmed it I think it was in. Probably 1976, and then I donated my music. I wrote I think two or three songs for the film. And wilfred Avery was director

Andy: director. Mm-hmm.

Paul: and. I think it was used mainly in schools you know, to show that gay people were quite [00:23:00] normal.

And it was quite a groundbreaking film in its day. It's actually in the British Film Institute, and I think you can actually download, well, I dunno whether you can download it, but you can certainly watch it.

Andy: I absolutely will be watching that. . So what happened after the film?

Paul: Then I went on to write the second album because obviously we'd lost the first album. So, we couldn't get a recording deal straight away because we had no songs that we'd given them all you know, to jet records. So it took us maybe, 18 months, two years to write another album.

And we recorded the album, I think in 78, the second album, which came out as handbag snatching.

Andy: That's a brilliant name for an album. How did you manage to get hold of the songs as they are now on streaming if you lost them at the time?

Paul: Oh, I had copies because obviously every time, you know, we did a mix of a song. I got a copy[00:24:00] and of course, so I had these tapes going back, oh, best part of 50 years. And recently I. Had them transferred into digital format and that's how I, have the songs to date.

Andy: And there was no legal claim on them from. Whatever form the record label became

Paul: Who knows. I have no idea. And quite

Andy: I can cut that out,

Paul: quite frankly, I don't give a fuck. They can sue me they sue me. Well, I'll get lots of publicity and hey, who knows?

Andy: Paul. That's the spirit. Maybe we want them to find out and sue you for the publicity.

Paul: Yes, yes, yes. Maybe yeah, , 

they can please do

Andy: That's fantastic. So did I read correctly that you became a teacher in the eighties?

Paul: I did at the onset aids. When aids you know, took over I decided [00:25:00] that music was too difficult. It was too much going on in my life with aids, you know, a lot of my friends were, were. Dying and a lot of them died. And so I decided that it's probably best not to try and, because pursuing music at that level is you need a lot of time and you need a lot of energy.

And my energy had gone a bit flat, so I decided to go back to university and I became a teacher. And that I taught for, oh, many years after that.

I used to teach in London, and I used to teach exercise and fitness teachers. I used to you know, teach gym instruction and personal training and aerobics, instructors.

Andy: You mentioned that, of course AIDS started to dominate in the early eighties. When did you first start to hear that there was something afoot?

Paul: Oh, again, through gay news and I remember before it was cold aids and before they called it H I V [00:26:00] I remember it being called HTLV three. and I, I remember the first, you know, first few people in New York I getting this disease and it was reported in gay news and of course, week after week it got bigger and bigger and bigger until eventually we, you know, there were cases in, in London. Yeah. Yeah. It was a, a very. An awful time. It was an absolute awful time for gay people.

Andy: What strikes me especially is after the seventies coming off that decriminalization that you mentioned earlier, the particular cruelty of people starting to be more and more liberated and live the lives that they want to lead. and something as seemingly random and cruel as a virus cuts that down. And not only that, but fuels the [00:27:00] flames of the existing homophobia.

People who were already against gay people had this additional wind in their sails. A fascinating time and kind of confluence of events to me.

Paul: Yeah. It was, yeah, as you say, we were just getting to the point of being accepted. Gay liberation was, making real headways. And then of course, AIDS rears it, sadly head. And of course, as you say, there was a lot of prejudice. You know, we had the Thatcher government and of course then Clause 28 yeah, it was a, it was a, an awful time.

Andy:

Well, we are onto your artist now, and I'd love to know who you picked, and of course, again, why

Paul: Right. I picked Steely down and the reason I picked Steely Down is I, I was always a fan of Steely Down, but about, oh, [00:28:00] 10, 15 years ago I was playing in a disco band called Pharaoh, and the beats.

Andy: Wow,

Paul: And our cover album is available on SoundCloud. You can cover listen to it. They were a great little band.

It was a, a great disco band, but anyway, in this band, they were great musicians. Somebody asked me if I'd like to join a Steely Dan tribute band.

So I did, I joined this Steely, a tribute band, and I had to learn a whole three hours of steely dance songs.

And that's what really turned me on to Steely Dan. Normally, when I've learned a song I usually can't listen to the music because I know it I just can't listen to it again. But Steely Down was a completely different. Ball game. I mean, the music is so clever. The [00:29:00] words are clever, the music is clever.

And you know, Walter Becker and Donald Fagan were, I'd say, close to genius with their music. And since then, I've become a real fan of, of steely.

Andy: I am embarrassed to say that I really don't know much about Steely Dan other than some of the tracks I've listened to in preparation for this conversation. So if there's anyone listening to this who feels the same, what would be, you know, the top three tracks that you'd recommend that people listen to?

Paul: Oh, probably the easiest bonds to get into would be things like reeling in the years. Ricky don't lose that number. Kids. Charlamagne Haitian divorce is another great one. That's that's a great song.

Andy: I love what you [00:30:00] say about having that whole new respect for them once you understood how complex their music is. And there's a few artists and bands. Who have that special trait. I often think the classic one for me is people always think they can get up and sing ABBA at karaoke, but very rarely can people actually sing Abba anywhere near as well as Abba Sing.

And it's because the songs are actually deceivingly complicated and it does give you a brand of respect for them.

Paul: oh yeah, certainly. Yeah. Oh, Abba are very clever. They were always very, very clever. Yeah, I have a lot of respect for Abba.

Andy: So you mentioned the disco band that you performed in and you moved to Australia. When did you move to Australia and why?

Paul: I moved to Australia about eight years ago. And the reason I moved was my partner then, well, we're now married. Got a job in Australia. He's an Australian and he got a job in Cairns at the hospital, Cairns Hospital. And so I was probably, [00:31:00] early sixties, and I'd just retired and he's younger than me and I thought, well, maybe I moved to Australia would be interesting.

So, you know, we packed our bags and came to Australia.

The problem with me is that I'm not very sociable and I find it very difficult to make friends. So I thought the only way I'm going to to meet people is to actually join a band. So I decided to form a band and luckily I met a guy called, Julian Cliff.

And we formed a band called Area 13. We did this oh eight years ago, and we've gone on as area 13 to record two albums. We've became quite successful. We toured all around Queensland and did lots of gigs and yeah, we've been quite successful.

Andy: Now, Paul, you mentioned that you find it difficult to make friends and be sociable, but the story you just described of you finding some band [00:32:00] mates and setting up a band and recording an album, that sounds eerily familiar As in that's exactly what the younger Paul did when he moved to London.

So maybe you're not as unsociable as you say you are.

Paul: Maybe I use that as a a way to make friends and probably I do. 

Andy: What do your current band mates think of your handbag days?

Paul: Oh, I think they're quite intrigued. I think yeah, when they see the pictures Yeah. They're, they're intrigued.

Andy: Something I'd love to ask you about is actually not related to music. The name of this podcast includes the word queer, which is an identifier and a label I'd say fairly commonly used today. It's a word that I like, but I know that it's not a word that. Everyone likes, but I'm also fascinated by the evolution of language over time.

And of course I know that the [00:33:00] word did not hold the same positive connotations a few decades ago. In fact, it was quite the opposite. It was quite a negative word. I guess I wanted to ask you, given the, the life that you've had, what do you think of the word queer?

Paul: I don't mind it. I'm glad we've you know, reclaimed it. A again, as you say in the. And the sixties to be called a queer was you know, very derogatory. And, I wouldn't have used the word throughout the sixties, seventies, eighties, but now that we've reclaimed the word I'm quite happy with it.

You know, I use it quite often, daily

Andy: Very good.

 Thank you so much for your time. It was lovely to talk to you. I'd just like to know if there was a charity initiative, social media crown that you'd like to give a shout out to?

Paul: I'd like to mention the Peter Tatchell Foundation.

Andy: Mm-hmm.

Paul: I've recently met Peter Tael in Cairns. His mother lived in Cairns and I met Peter in Cairns recently. [00:34:00] And I've always been impressed with his work. You know, I think he's absolutely fearless. 

And so, you know, the Peter Tael Foundation is something I'd I'd certainly like to mention. 

Andy: Truly, truly fearless. I can't think of a better word than that. I love that. Well, Paul Southwell, you are queer and thank you very much for your tracks.

Paul: Thank you, Randy. I've really enjoyed it. Thank you.

Andy: You can find out more about Paul and listen to Hambag's album in this

episode's you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a rating or review in your app, or best of all, tell a friend. This episode was produced, recorded and edited on unceded Gadigal land by me, Andy Gott. You can email me at tracksofourqueers at gmail dot com or follow the podcast at at tracks of our queers on social media.

See you next time.