Justin Hopkins, opera singer

Justin Hopkins is an opera singer and musical theatre performer from Philadelphia, and currently based in Antwerp.

Justin is the first guest to take me on a particularly classical journey, and I was thrilled to dive into his selections. We discuss pieces by Tchaikovsky, Kathleen Battle and Jessye Norman, and Elton John.

You can follow Justin on Instagram here.

Tracks of Our Queers is produced, presented and edited by Andy Gott.

You can listen to our Spotify playlist, Selections from Tracks of Our Queers, and find Aural Fixation in your favourite podcast provider. 

Transcript

Justin Hopkins
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Andy Gott: [00:00:00] hello, this is Tracks of our Queers. My name is Andy Gott, and each episode, I'll talk to a guest about one song, one album, and one artist that have soundtracked their life as a queer person.

Justin Hopkins is an opera singer, actor, and musical theatre performer. Born in Philadelphia and based in Antwerp, Justin's commanding bass baritone has stopped me in my tracks many a time on social media, and he graciously agreed to a conversation earlier this year.

I especially adored hearing his musical selections, and I can't wait for you to. 

If you enjoy this episode, please subscribe, leave a rating or review in your app, or even better, tell a friend. Tracks of Our Careers is an entirely independent production, so if you would like to help keep the podcast ad free, you can shout me a coffee via the link in the show notes.

Every penny goes to episode production. [00:01:00] Over to Justin.

Hello Justin Hopkins. Welcome to Tracks of Our Queers.

Justin Hopkins: Hi there, Andy, it's such a pleasure to be with you. Very excited. I'm a big fan of yours, by

Andy Gott: I'll stop

Justin Hopkins: So I, this is an honor that you, that you asked me to to join you.

Andy Gott: Well, why don't we go back to the beginning or as early as you can remember, what role did music take in your childhood? What was playing at home? What were you responding to? 

Justin Hopkins: Music was ever present in my childhood. I, I have two parents who love music and I was really fortunate that they had really eclectic taste. I have two black parents of a certain area, both born in the late forties, early fifties, so we had a lot of Motown but we also had a lot of gospel music as well.

But [00:02:00] my dad of all things, is a big fan of folk music and classic rock. So

James Taylor was always playing in the house. The Duby brothers do gray those types of people. With my mom, there was gospel, but then there was also classical music.

She, she loved opera. She loved symphonic music, instrumental music. So I really had a wide range of musical influences. And then my mom sang in a choir. I called it her old lady choir. She always got upset with me for saying that. But her sorority that, she was in had a choir. And every Monday night I would go with her to her choir practice. And I would sit there and do my homework. But I was really just listening to the music, I was memorizing all of the songs. 

In the black American tradition, [00:03:00] there used to be a wide range of music sung all the time.

So in the black church you would have them singing maybe handle or, some type of classical piece. But then they would break into the gospel. And her choir director, Noticed that I was singing along and then eventually had me sing a solo with the choir.

I was eight years old when I sang my first solo with them. 

And then she recommended that I auditioned for the Philadelphia Boys Choir which I did. And those were my formative years in the, in the Philadelphia boys choir. And I traveled all over the world. And yeah, that was my early experience with music. Yeah.

Andy Gott: From childhood into your teens, you were within the world of opera and classical music and performing, and that would've been your life, how often were you [00:04:00] exposed to popular music?

You know, what was going on in the charts? What were kids your age listening to?

Justin Hopkins: I'm 39 now, so in the early nineties, mid nineties. I suppose is when I was really starting to notice the popular charts. So my grade school I was fortunate at when I was there, was very racially mixed.

I'd say was about 50% black, 50% white. On the black side, we're talking, Mariah Brandy Mary, j Blige but then with my white friends, it was Weezer. Oasis, but I was,

I was kind of the odd man out. Because I was singing in the Philly boys choir at the time, so I wasn't as up to speed with pop music. Still am not. I had an appreciation for it, but I, I, [00:05:00] I really wasn't as adept with pop music as, as I was with, the music that I was singing Broadway and opera.

Andy Gott: That makes perfect sense to me because if you are spending your entire day and I'm assuming most of your evening practicing and being surrounded by this music, there's no other time to explore anything else. So , as you were navigating your teens, was there a moment where you started to understand that you were perhaps different from the other boys?

Justin Hopkins: It came earlier for me than teens. I think. I mentioned that I sang in the Philadelphia Boys Choir and I'm really close friends with guys that I sang with in the choir. We're going on five years and we always joke those of us that are gay, it was a breeding ground for, for us gay kids.

So the realization that I was gay came very early. And I don't know [00:06:00] what it is. This is an existential question, but what is it about, about choirs singing that attracts gay youth? I'd say probably around the age of nine and 10 how excited I was about singing this choir music and singing these old Broadway tunes. I knew I was different. We would sing old Broadway like Hello Dolly, and all of this type of stuff and, and, and found myself nostalgic for a time I that I wasn't even alive.

Andy Gott: And as an opera singer, as a performer in that space for your career, Have you always felt able to be open about your identity

Justin Hopkins: As an opera singer, I do feel like it's a relatively safe space to be, to be open. It's not it's never really been an issue for me. Now, for me personally, you can say it, it [00:07:00] sounds strange to say, but I, I feel somewhat privileged that I am a masc quote unquote gay. 

People don't immediately assume that I'm gay and, I don't necessarily have to change myself and my mannerisms on stage. But the opera world still is very, it can be a very conservative space as well. And navigating that as a gay black man has not been without, its challenges. 

We're really in a renaissance period right now in opera where black artists and black pieces, and not only black, but but also Asian, Latino. They're being celebrated and they're being held up in, in a way that they should have been all of these years. But it's rare that I'm in the majority of any operatic space, I'm always, usually one of [00:08:00] very few, if not the only one in the room.

Andy Gott: And what part does the fact that you mostly perform in Europe play in versus were you to perform mostly in America, or would it be a similar situation?

Justin Hopkins: What I love about Europe is to me as an, as an American boy, there, there's still this very, exotic sense, oh yeah, I'm in Europe performing. But then there's also really

the appreciation for classical music and for art, I think is embedded in the European culture in a way that it's not in the United States.

And I also think that being a queer black artist, I think that that is also viewed upon here in Europe with a bit more fascination than it would be in the United States. And I enjoy that fascination. I enjoy really being kind of a big, unique fish in this pond here versus in the United States.[00:09:00] 

Opera culture just just isn't as widely known and embraced. There.

Andy Gott: That makes sense. You have performed on stages in London, Los Angeles, Boston, Antwerp, amongst just a few. Is it possible, Justin, to pick a career highlight so far

Justin Hopkins: I performed for the Dalai Lama. Some years ago, and that was really a highlight for me. Performing with the Boston Pops has been a really big highlight too. When I was young. This is one of these kind of manifestation stories.

So I was probably around 12 years old and I'm watching public television and

I see the Boston Pops performing and it's Jason Alexander was their guest soloist and Jason Alexander of Seinfeld fame. He played George. And I remember being mesmerized because I didn't realize, first of all that Jason Alexander [00:10:00] had. Broadway and singing background, and I mean, he's phenomenal. I think he was doing Sondheim and such on Broadway when he started his career. I was also mesmerized by the Boston Pops and Keith Lockhart, the longtime chief conductor there. This young guy up there, just so flashy and, and having so much fun.

And I can remember seeing it and saying, I want to be up there on that stage one day with this orchestra. Wouldn't it be nice? And then fast forward some 20 years , and I've performed with the Boston Pops more than over 30 performances, concerts with them.

So I really have to say that was a highlight. And then I got to see Jason Alexander perform with the pops and got to meet him after. So that was kind of a full circle moment for me.

Andy Gott: I think I want to come clean with you, Justin. I really wanted to talk to, Someone from the opera slash classical world, and I a few years ago,[00:11:00] I didn't grow up in a family where classical music was playing and I grew up in a family where there was amazing music playing, but I can't play any instruments. So I, so I also wasn't in that world at school, of reading music and playing music. 

So I guess as someone whose life, otherwise, I live and breathe music, I've always been fascinated by the world of classical music and, and yeah, I guess a few years ago I just decided to start exposing myself to it more, whether that was putting on Spotify playlists.

So there's an entire world of music at our fingertips now, and I think I've still barely scraped the tip of the iceberg, but what I'd love to hear from you is you have spent the vast majority of your life in this world, but what direction would you point someone in who has had little exposure, but is deeply curious and wants to build their own taste in classical music?

And maybe to add an extra layer [00:12:00] on top of that, what would you say to a queer person?

Justin Hopkins: Very good question. I would recommend, at least with opera, I always say that Puccini's La Boheme Is

the perfect opera. And the one that is the most accessible and the best intro into the opera world. It's perfectly written in the sense that the story is perfect. The composition is perfect, the length of the opera, it's not too long.

And I think it's a perfect introduction to somebody who doesn't yet know opera as an experienced opera. And it was one of the first that I performed as a young child. And it's my mom's favorite. And she made me watch it as a child. The famous [00:13:00] Elli production at the Met.

But it's a love story. It's very human. It's a man meets woman, woman meets man. They fall in love. They fall out of love. And they're surrounding friends working their way just through life and through youth. And I would say that that would be an opera if you, if you've never been to an opera, if La Boheme is playing, go see it.

And you'll really get a taste for opera and, and you'll want to come back. 

Now as a queer person, I think that the opera and, the Opera House and the Symphony Hall,

Has always drawn in queer people. And that's such a deep question and I've been trying to, preparing for this interview.

I, I tried to think about this and, and I, I think you could probably write whole, I don't know dissertations on it. 

Why [00:14:00] is it that for these centuries that opera and classical music seems to draw in, in particular a large group of queer people?

I would say that it's partially, it's the escape into the fantasy of different worlds, of different of places where love is the only thing 

and to answer your question beyond opera, I would say that the romantic music is very accessible too to people. So if you're looking for any type of instrumental music, I would recommend Rachmaninoff any of his piano concertos the Rock two or or three, just musical embodiments of human desire and, and love.

For. Queer people [00:15:00] who we, we tend to be drawn, to be larger than life and to dress up and to wear our hearts on our sleeve. That's why opera and symphonic music is like a temple for us because we're free in those spaces to be expressive and to, take in all of the, beauty of this music.

Then there's also the dress up, there's the makeup and those sorts of things that is really one of the only spaces where I don't know. It's drag before, drag. just such an expressive art form and it, appeals to certainly appeals to my queerness always has, but, but in general

it.

it 

Andy Gott: I could have listened to you talk about that endlessly. And I'm in for treat because I've got more questions for you. So we're gonna talk about your selections.

Did you have fun [00:16:00] selecting them or was it painful?

Justin Hopkins: Rachmaninoff said,

I think there's a famous quote, it's

music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime isn't enough for music. Something along those lines in the sense that there's just so much out there. How do you make a choice? But it's such a good exercise to really think, to really go back and say, what influenced me?

Why am I here? Why am I doing this? Why have I made my life's work opera and classical music? Why be a starving artist when, when you could be so many other things? Yeah, it was, really interesting for me to go back and think about these things.

Andy Gott: I guess let's begin with the piece that you picked as your track. What did you pick and why?

Justin Hopkins: So I picked Tchaikovsky's symphony symphony number six. You asked me earlier about when might I have discovered my [00:17:00] queerness or I tell the story all the time that I think that I 

Andy Gott: I 

Justin Hopkins: fully realized my homosexuality one night. Late night I was around eight years old, and I stayed up late and was watching television and a movie came on called Maurice.

I was mesmerized immediately by the soundtrack, by the cinematography, the way it was shot. I didn't even know that this was a queer film when I started watching it. As it went along in the, in the plot was developing, and I'm seeing that these two young men fall in love and go through life, trying to deal with their their homosexuality. 

I realized at that age, at that time, and at that moment I said, oh my God, this is, what [00:18:00] I've been feeling all of this time. This is who I am. And throughout this entire movie, underneath

the soundtrack and moving the plot along is Tchaikovsky's sixth Symphony. And the yearning, the track that I picked in a specific moment of the piece is this kind of,

in musical terms. There's a pedal tone or pedal note, it stays on. One of you hear the Timon playing one note and really this crescendo out of the orchestra just from this one note.

[00:19:00] To me, it really symbolizes just the heartbeat and, and yearning desire you feel that and Tchaikovsky was one of the greatest composers of all, all time,

but also a homosexual and just brilliant on the part of, it's a Merchant Ivory film brilliant on their part to have Tchaikovsky's sixth be the really, the heartbeat of the movie. And even if you don't know classical music, if you don't know Tchaikovsky,

The impact that the symphony has on the listener that certainly had on a nine year old me was really life changing. And this idea then that a classical piece, could really be the soundtrack to one's life.

That was really the case for me with this symphony number [00:20:00] six.

Andy Gott: I'm glad that you raised the topic of Tchaikovsky's queerness in that when I go back to wanting to explore classical more myself, a few years ago, I was drawn to Tchaikovsky over and over because I, I think I was aware that he was a queer man, and I wanted to explore whether I could sense any of that yearning or sadness melancholy in a time where he couldn't be free and open with his sexuality.

But he had all of this talent and love to share as so many artists have had through history and pieces like the one that you've shared. It's interesting to hear you describe the technical aspect of how we can pick up on those emotions, and that's just a human sense that we have.

Justin Hopkins: absolutely. And it's the question of if you don't know about Tchaikovsky's biography, does a queer person go to listen to Tchaikovsky because they know that he was a a gay man or without [00:21:00] even knowing that can a person be drawn to his music without any words or anything and, and, and,

and be drawn to his music, because I was drawn to Tchaikovsky's music as well. Not knowing at all anything about it, anything of his personal biography. But there is something within it there. His queerness is within the music, the desire, the longing and it is amazing that we can kind of sense that

Andy Gott: that. 

Justin Hopkins: It's, really incredible. 

Andy Gott: That album, is so much I want to say about this album, but before we get into any of that, tell me what you picked and why did you pick this one?

Justin Hopkins: The album I picked was,

Kathleen Battle and Jesse Norman in a concert of spirituals at Carnegie Hall and it's a live album. It was recorded, I believe in 1991. [00:22:00] And

this was also another defining moment in my life. I had been singing a bit, I think already with my mom's choir, interested in music. But

my uncle I went to visit my aunt and uncle, and he said, you have to see these, these two women sing.

And I remember sitting in his den watching this concert on v h s tape and saying, Oh my God, that's, it's not even opera. I mean, they're singing, they're singing black negro spirituals, but in a classical voice. 

Of course I [00:23:00] knew a lot of the songs that they were singing, but I had never heard them song such a way,

and Operatically classically. And I said to myself then seven, eight years old, okay, that's what I want to do and that's who I want to be. Now. The fact that there were two women, and as an eight year old boy, I, and up until my voice changed, my voice changed.

When I was 12 or or 13 years old, I was a boy. I was a soprano. I was a boy soprano. So this was right up my alley. These were two women at the height. Of their careers two of the greatest female operatic singers and classical singers of all time who happened to be black, just going at it for an hour or and a half, just competing with each other for high notes for the spotlight and for the moment, but with [00:24:00] such love and community for each other. Such respect. 

It's hard to explain to people who aren't in the opera world or who don't like opera or, or classical music of just how regal and how important Jesse Norman

Was she just passed, I'd say with about a year or two ago. It hasn't been long, but also Kathleen Battle voices that will never have again. And so all of that to say, this was the first time that I had ever experienced hearing these two singers and singing it in this way.

I said to myself, then this is what I want to do and this, this is who I want to be. I want to, to be able to stand up on a stage and create an [00:25:00] experience. Similar to the experience that they created all those years ago, I've never been able to achieve that because I'm, I'm still working toward that, just because they're so great.

but they were my first opera experiences. These two women, beautiful, magnificent black women.

Andy Gott: The album, when you sent it to me, I put it on and I had to do a double take, if that's possible with audio, because nothing could have prepared me for it. It's been a long time since someone has shared with me an album, which I'd never heard before.

And I've had so much fun.

Justin Hopkins: Aw, I'm so glad.

Andy Gott: so much fun and the joy, and it's not all joy. There's certainly a story and a journey that the album, that the set list for the concert goes on. But there is so much joy [00:26:00] emanating from this concert and this pairing, which you just described so well of these women who were so formidable in their own right and trailblazers and so remarkably talented.

And I was reading that the press at the time were at least within, you know, the classical sphere. People were already, as they do with pretty much any pair of strong women in any art form pitting them against each other, and expecting there to be all of this drama and controversy and as you said on stage, none of that was present in that there was that competitiveness, but it was wholly positive and filled with respect and love and lifting each other up.

And, and that's, that's so obvious in the music.

Justin Hopkins: Absolutely. I think that's an old, that is an old theme of people particularly I think they do it with everybody. I don't want to say that it's only a black thing. You get any two stars together in the tabloids, they try and pit people against each other, but[00:27:00] 

Andy Gott: I'd say especially if they're women though,

Justin Hopkins: exactly, especially if they're women and if they're black women.

From my perspective. Yeah. I think it's, I think it's done with particular malice. 

Andy Gott: Is that also because sometimes it's, it's almost incomprehensible for people that there can be more than one person who's brilliant at that thing.

Justin Hopkins: There's nothing new about it. There was one other track that I thought when I went on this walk and I was thinking about the track that I should use, and one was gonna be Leontyne Price. Who came before Kathleen Battle, and Jesse Norman, who it's almost impossible to describe what she means to the, to the opera and classical world as well.

One of the greatest voices ever in the history of [00:28:00] mankind. I know that's a grand statement, but if you listen to her, you, you'd hear that They did the same with her. There was Leonine Price and Martino Aroyo who were the two Sopranos in I'd say the late sixties, seventies.

Their, their career spanned. And they were always trying to pit them against each other. And that kind of mentality then does seep down into the community. I still,

I don't, it's, I feel, hmm, I feel this is a safe space to admit this but I still have to battle with that sentiment in my life being almost 40 now.

And I still have to remind myself the black.

Artist, the black man, or say, me, I'm a bass, but the, young black bass coming up singing next to me, my colleague is not a threat. 

He's not taking anything away from me. I'm not taking anything away from This is to be celebrated. [00:29:00] The fact that we're both here and I know that I'm not the only one that is, that comes down from society and , and we have to kind of exercise that out of our psyches, that there's room for all of us. There's room for all of us.

Andy Gott: And especially if one is in an environment where there perhaps are limitations put on them well we have to make the room.

Justin Hopkins: Exactly. Exactly.

Andy Gott: I dunno if you're familiar with the album that Rufuss Wainwright put out a few years ago where he recreated the famous Judy Garland performance at Carnegie Hall. I couldn't help. But when I hear your reverence for this album and the influence that it had on you from such a young age, and then, your determination to do something with this in your future.

I can see, you know, a reverend recreation of this somehow in the future with your involvement.

Justin Hopkins: It's no mistake, [00:30:00] it's no coincidence then that you mentioned Rufuss. Because he was on my list too, for at least for a track or the album or artist. That reverence, there's something so queer

about the reverence that you're talking about.

I don't know what it is. Again, it would take somebody much more academic than me to understand what it is about the worship that we have for some personalities as queer people. I have it for, for Barbara Streisand. I have it for Judy Garland as well.

I have it for Jesse Norman, Kathleen Battle Team Price. And it's pretty obvious that most of these people are women. Why is that? What are we tapping into here as queer people? , I don't have any answers for you, but I know that it's real, and I know that [00:31:00] it's such a beautiful thing. I know that when I watch a Judy Garland performance, when I watch Barbara Streisand and Julie and Judy singing You know, the happy days are here.

Again, it does something to me that it's not going to do for my straight friends from high school. That's one of the points and one of the areas where I say, well, thank God I'm gay because I would be missing out on this magnificence. That, that is not

obvious to everyone. We're somehow able to tap into as queer people the essence of certain things,

We're able to tap into the, into the heart. Of Judy Garland when she's singing her, [00:32:00] her heart out,

and we're able to feel it and internalize it in a, in a way our queerness allows for us to understand

And, and there's no explanation for it.

But how wonderful for us that we have that, and

and I feel the same too then, then you talk about recreating. But everything that Rufuss does then kind of lifts me off my seat. I always like to say too, I have experiences as a musician.

doesn't happen often, but there are pieces where I can listen and I can get into a state of being where it feels as if I'm lifting off of my seat.

I feel like I'm floating. 

And what a special thing. I mean, we go through hell as queer people and it's

[00:33:00] unfortunately, we've come so far and there's natural backlash of course, against us, especially these days right now in the States. But thank God we, are who we are because at least with music, and I'm here to talk about classical music we have the potential and the ability for deeper feeling and deeper understanding of music and art.

Andy Gott: Justin Hopkins, you cracked the tracks of our queers code. You get the brief, you came on and you get the brief. The artists that you picked, who and why?

Justin Hopkins: I picked the Elton John and I was worried that that would [00:34:00] be cliche, but it's not. So

it's interesting fact. I don't know. 

Many people will hear this interview, but I wonder if any of my family will hear it. And I wonder if my dad will hear it on any Google search down the road, whether they hear that.

And I say that because my parents know that I'm, know that I'm gay. But it's it's not talked about. 

Now with my dad, Maya, I had a very difficult relationship with my father. Very loving, very supportive, always supported my singing. Was very proud of me. But the one thing, and I knew from a young age, the one thing that I couldn't be was a gay.

But on the other hand, [00:35:00] he would sit me down as a young kid. There was a room in the house that he, he had his music set up. He had a reel to reel for those old enough to know what that is. And and eight track player and, and record player And

He would say, son, you gotta listen to this.

Listen to this. And, and he would play Rocket Man and blast it. 

I couldn't, then it was impossible for me not to grow up being a, a super fan of Elton. I mean, later years. Then of course I've bought all of his albums from, from empty Sky on up. And these are thoughts that I don't have often, but preparing for the interview forces me to think about it.

How interesting that I would bond with my dad musically over one of the queerest artists there is, [00:36:00] and that

When I talk about the understanding that we have as queer people and we can tap into something else and musically that's not then to discount because my dad enjoys Elton on a very real

level.

But

how interesting then that I would

be so heavily influenced by him, by my father in my love of Elton John, but then not really be able to embrace my own homosexuality, my own queerness. That was very interesting to me to think about. 

But also very similar stories.

I mean, Elton he went to the Royal Conservatory. He was trained as a classical musician and then was able to discover himself and to express himself. Reg Dwight became Elton John. Through a process. And I know that I'm still [00:37:00] on a process of coming to terms with myself, coming to terms with my queerness coming to terms with who I am as an artist and developing as an artist.

And Elton is such an inspiration in that sense. And it's a great vantage point for me being my age to. Have his entire life and catalog

and to be able to track it all as a whole and, and to see his progression. 

Andy Gott: and to enjoy it. Like an all you can listen buffet.

Justin Hopkins: exactly. I mean, I think it was really my teenage years and you, we go back to a question that you asked that I really wasn't able to answer before.

I would say then that it was Elton's soundtrack. That

was the,

soundtrack of my teenage years and every album, let's say one period of my life [00:38:00] might have been madman across the water, and then another one was honky chateau and, and another goodbye road. I can place where I was emotionally and what was going on. I can relate that to an album of his that was playing on a loop in my room.

And it was Elton's versatility. He went from, from classical to folk to rock, to r and b. His country. He synthesized seemingly all of and, and turned it into Elton John. And it's something that I strive to do. I've always wanted to be as versatile as possible.

Yes, I pay the bills singing opera and classical music. But I've always wanted to be as versatile as as possible. . And I know that Elton [00:39:00] was was a huge influence in that aspect.

I wanted to be as versatile. And as free as Elton John, and I haven't achieved that yet. I don't think I ever will, but, the attempt to be so free is the journey itself yeah, and worth striving for.

Andy Gott: Justin.

life and families are complicated and I don't expect you to articulate the complexities of your relationship with your father, but I'm compelled to call out. I can really feel that pain of not being able to connect with such an important person in your life yet reconciling that with the fact that he gifted you this.

Marvelously talented, possibly one of the most talented and famous queer people on the planet. [00:40:00] And if I was in your shoes, I would forever struggle with being able to reconcile. Why, how can this person who gifted me this legend of, of talent and greatness how can we not? I dunno if I'm ever stepping by saying that because it's so personal and complicated, but I just wanted to say that I, I'm sorry.

And I hope that's not the case forever. 

Justin Hopkins: I think that it's. It's not a unique situation. I think it's sadly it's all too common. I don't want to say that I wouldn't have it any other way, but I do think that it informs our passions. It informs what we do, who we are, how we do it, which Chaikovsky have been able, would he have had the inspiration to write

the sixth, [00:41:00] his sixth symphony, were it not for his

queerness and his inability to to be who he actually was? There's no way that that didn't influence him as a composer. We would not have had the same type of music. It would've been something totally different. 

And so, it's the beauty that comes out of that struggle. And that is also what makes us unique as queer people, what we're able to do in the face of non-acceptance and struggle

Andy Gott: and adversity.

Justin Hopkins: and adversity. There have been some real gifts to the world because of that. And I don't propose to say that I'm doing anything brilliant because of that, but would it have been wonderful to have a completely accepting upbringing? 

Yes.[00:42:00] But

it's what makes the life that I have now,

Have a husband. I'm married. I

it makes me appreciated in a way that I, that I'm very grateful for. I feel very privileged to live in this day and age. I always say too, had I been born 20, 30 years prior, would I even be here?

I hope that the generation, even younger than me does not take that for granted because we live in interesting times. 

Andy Gott: And just as quickly as we can be granted these rights and freedoms just as quickly the hand can take away. And that's what makes me appreciate it.

Justin Hopkins: Absolutely. but to tie it all in

as it was 150 years ago, the Opera House and the concert hall are still

Spaces for queerness are still the places we go to hear composers, whether every [00:43:00] audience member knows it or not, but a chaikovsky. Schubert Benjamin Britain. The list goes on. These were queer men. Writing some of the masterpieces of humanity.

We've been here, we'll always be here and we have added as queer people such beauty to the world. I think it's very apparent. In the Opera House and in the concert hall and it's no coincidence then that's where I am. 

Andy Gott: You have just summarized why I was so pursuant for Justin Hopkins to come on tracks of our queers because you have been a marvelous guest. You've been wonderful and so articulate in the stories you've told. Just before I say goodbye what are you currently performing in?

What's in your near future?

Justin Hopkins: I am currently in Antwerp, Belgium right now and I'm completely outside of my comfort zone here doing a [00:44:00] piece, which is very important. Because it's with the ballet company of the Opera House. And the choreographer is Jermaine Spivey. He is a black queer choreographer from Baltimore, who, , all I can say is he's amazing.

He is a guru. And he created a piece for dancers and for dance. And I am the guest vocalist. But I have to do all of the dancing with the ballet dancers, and it's kicking my butt for sure. I have all of this and all it's, the most difficult and challenging project that I've ever had to do because I have to dance in improvisation with professional dancers, and then I have to sing an opera aria in the middle of the performance.

So that's what I'm doing at the moment and having a blast and a real interesting [00:45:00] experience to have the artistic team be black queer men, the costume designer, Marley, it's stunning then to look around and say, wow, we're here and we're in this space and, and we're doing this work.

And so that's where I am currently.

Andy Gott: Fantastic. Thank you for your time and generosity. And Justin Hopkins, you are queer and thank you very much for your tracks.

Justin Hopkins: Thank you, Andy. It's a real pleasure to be here with you.

Andy Gott: You can find out more about Justin in this episode's show notes, or follow him on Instagram at JustinLHopkins.

This episode was produced, recorded, and edited on unceded Gadigal land by me, Andy Gott. 

You can email me at tracksofourqueers at gmail. com. You can follow the podcast at tracksofourqueers on social media, and if you're not already, please do subscribe.

See you next time[00:46:00] [00:47:00] [00:48:00]