Moud Goba, charity manager and former refugee

Moud Goba is the National Manager of Micro Rainbow, a UK charity that supports LGBTQ+ refugees and asylum seekers, and a former refugee herself, from Zimbabwe.

We discuss some of Moud's favourite songs from her home country.

You can follow Micro Rainbow on Instagram here. You can purchase something from Micro Rainbow's Amazon wishlist for LGBTQ+ refugees right here.

Tracks of Our Queers is produced, presented and edited by Andy Gott, with the support of Forbes Street Studios, Sydney. A big thank you to Anthony Garvin.

You can listen to our Spotify playlist, Selections from Tracks of Our Queers, and find Aural Fixation in your favourite podcast provider. 

Transcript

Moud Goba
===

Andy Gott: [00:00:00] Hello Moud. Welcome to tracks of our Queers.

Moud Goba: Hello. Thank you very much for inviting me. Very excited to be here.

Andy Gott: You are such a busy person. I'm very honored that you found time for me and I'll do my best to ensure it's a good use of your time. I have to begin with acknowledging that the story of your life to me is extraordinary. You run. Micro Rainbow, an organization which assists LGBTQ refugees and asylum seekers with finding accommodation and work and ultimately safety in a country, which I'm assuming that they've often faced tremendous odds to get to.

And I guess I'd like to begin with understanding how did you make your way to the uk?

Moud Goba: So initially I came to the UK as a student, but I, I already was leaving because of my sexuality. I knew who I am. I knew the struggles that I was already facing, but back then, no one kind of knew well. I didn't [00:01:00] know that I could claim asylum because of my sexuality. So this is the route that many gay people take, you know, they'll be escaping persecution and they will find ways to live.

That's what I did. I left and came to the UK as a student initially. And then I claimed asylum as soon as I knew that you could seek protection because of your sexuality.

Andy Gott: And where, where did you grow up?

Moud Goba: I grew up in Zimbabwe, in Harari. I was born there and grew up there.

Andy Gott: You wrote to me in an email, I hope you don't mind me sharing. You said, for people like me, ostracized from our families and countries, music is often the only connection that gives us a sense of home and we hold onto it dearly. Can you tell me about the music that was playing in your home as you were growing?

Moud Goba: I think maybe to, to elaborate the, the what I'd said in the email, that's the journey for a lot of people [00:02:00] who flee because of their sexuality is not only, you know, their refugees and then their LGBT refugees who face additional challenges because they don't have that connectedness to their family, to their Cornish.

Now, like when you are in a new country, you tend to find people from your home country. You know, that's why they safe example in any. Country in the world, you can find an Irish plp, right? Because people from Ireland will go towards where they'll congregate with the people, with the same with many migrants.

But sometimes that space is not available for us. Even for some of us who are religious. You might find that this religious spaces are not still connected to you and if you're disconnected from your family, so you're left with things like music or things to read. Things are really. You connect home with.

But to answer your question, when I was growing up there, Music such as, you know, all of them. TOK playing. Thomas , really kind of traditional [00:03:00] music that was a sort of around me, like there was a variety of music. I remember also my. Aunts, my father, they also liked country music, which is , American Country music.

I knew like every Sunday morning, I, I would always remember country music playing, Dolly Parton. Kenny Rogers, this type of music 

Andy Gott: in your busy career when you are managing so many different things going on and you're stretched so thin, what role does music play in your life today? 

Moud Goba: I. Like, most people listen to music at any point. When I'm working, if I have like a particular hard report to write, I'll put music, something a bit mellow and I will start writing. If I'm busy, I drive a lot. So we have different safe houses for L G B T people, so sometimes that means driving between.

Places a lot when I'm driving. I have music in my car, usually me music from home. [00:04:00] I try and discover what new music's around you know, so there's music. 

When I'm sad I play music as well. Sometimes people share music as well with, with me. I know that every, at the end of the year, sometimes with socials at Micro Rainbow, and people from different countries will like, you know, we don't wanna have a proper dj, obviously as a charity.

Sometimes, you know, we on the laptop and people will bring their favorite music from their country. So we all play like different, different music. Yeah, there's always music somewhere somehow. My life personally at work as well. We have a dance project that's going on for five years. , it's like a social inclusion, you know to reduce isolation.

There's music there. I don't always go, but sometimes when I pop in, people are dancing and there's like different music. It's really fun.

Andy Gott: I'm glad that you raised that because I had a question about have you discovered music yourself through the people that you work with? Going back to the comment that you [00:05:00] made about how it's one of those things that really keeps that connection that. Refugees and asylum seekers have to the countries that they're from, and I just wondered what music that you had come across that people had kind of gifted you.

So I love the idea of people sharing that through dance and at Christmas parties and.

Moud Goba: Yes. It's all funny enough, she said there's always music even in her work. In this moment, you've given me a, a chance to reflect. We even used to have a choir. Refugees and people shared their religious songs sometimes for the choir because like a lot of people connected to their religion when we were growing up and we had another session where was similar to this, people would. Find a song and then talk about what it meant to them. What memories brought to them is like a music share. So people do share a lot of music. 

Andy Gott: Do you ever get time to enjoy live music like a gig or a concert?

Moud Goba: No, but I enjoy live music through [00:06:00] UK Black Pride.

So every year there's always an artist. There's always someone new. I haven't gone to Life Gig yet. But yes, I, at Pride, I do enjoy the, like, the life music and all the artists and what I like about uk, UK Pride especially because they're all these new people, young people and queer people.

Upcoming talent and oh, we'll just be sharing their talent. And around music, sometimes it's like activism. I remember last year there was a, a group that was like a non-binary group. And they were sharing their music, they were singing, and they're so talented. But through that, I could see a message.

I was like, oh, this is cool. And then obviously there's the, the, the main part where we have like a headline artist singing and The Boogie the Final Dance. So it's always fun. It's always fun. That's the last part that I love the most. You know, when it turns into like a big [00:07:00] massive music party,

music from the Caribbean, music from Africa, music from Europe, from America.

Just people vibing and sharing music and enjoying. 

Andy Gott: I would say that you've maybe been fundamental to the growth and success of UK Black Pride, and I believe are you now the chair of the board of trustees?

Moud Goba: Yes. Yes. I I am, I can't take too much credit and you can require been such an amazing team led by Phil where, where I can support. I do. It has been such an amazing journey as well. To be part of that team is grown so much and you keep, like bright has grown. It's just been beautiful as well.

Andy Gott: Going back to your life growing up in Zimbabwe, do you remember the first time that you started to feel othered or different?

Moud Goba: I do actually. I think I remember just being [00:08:00] different. Just being so different. And I thought that was probably because I was weird. And I remember a conversation that happened with my uncle and he said, oh, cause when you get married in Zimbabwe, your husband Pays the bride price. Usually cows.

Yeah. They bring cows how, however many cows your family asks for and you know, they can owe your family some cows and pay, you know, throughout your marriage. And I remember my uncle says, oh, when you get married and then I can get some cows and we can just, and I was like, no, I'm gonna get married, I was like, really?

Yeah, no, not me. I already knew, but I didn't know that I was a lesbian. Exactly, but I knew that I was different and as I was growing up, it was kind of becoming more apparent. I didn't have the same interest in boys as the other girls, and I would get really super connected to to, to girls. I was like, I think I was in love with one of my best friends for a long time.

[00:09:00] I just didn't understand it. I thought it was the closeness of of love until she got her boyfriend. I had such a heartbreak.

Andy Gott: I think that's a universal queer experience. I think a lot of us can relate to that.

Moud Goba: Yeah. It's, it's I think it's a struggle because once you realize who you are, you have to do the lot of shame, because remember, we come from a religious space where, you know, Homosexuality is preached against every opportunity. So once you start recognizing who you are, you already start feeling shame.

You already don't like yourself. You know, you already start feeling different. It's, it's just really tough. I think when you're young. 

It was for me.

Andy Gott: I imagine it was incredibly difficult to do so, but did you manage to find a connection with anyone who was maybe like you, did you manage to seek out anyone who you thought was maybe a little bit different as well?

Moud Goba: When I was young, no. when [00:10:00] I was growing up. No, because you know that, that shame even when I had sort of something with a girl when we were young, it was kind of dismissed. So she dismissed it as, you know, like just kind of experimenting. We didn't even dare talk about it, you know? And I knew what it was, which kinda really made me suffer a lot in shame.

Finding someone to relate to know, which is why I. I'm so grateful for technology these days. I wish it was there when I was growing up because even if I was in Zimbabwe in my little corner where I couldn't talk, and I was isolated and in shame thinking, what is this? If I had the internet back then, you know, you'd find like people Google, a lot of young people was above right to me.

And say, oh my God, I look up to you. You are the first, you know, Zimbabwe lesbian, I know Zimbabwe Gay person. I know. And it's really heartwarming to see that because it was really tough for me to think that why am I like this? You know? I [00:11:00] felt so alone like that. So it was tough not to find out who I am.

And then when I did find out like an organization for gay people was a bit older. I wanted to be more involved in activism, but I couldn't because of, you know, the challenges of persecution. It was still very much illegal. Someone I related to, maybe as I afterwards, maybe 18, was a lesbian woman held on, on radio, actually

Cause we had the constitution coming up, a change of constitutional editing of our constitution. And the GT organization I think was advocating. Included and there was a woman at, the name was . She came on the radio and was saying, I am a lesbian. And she sounded so powerful and proud and I just remember just listening to that.

We didn't have the means to record things on radio, [00:12:00] but. I hung onto her voice. I hung onto her saying how proud she was and this was who she was. Despite people putting her down saying things to take away from her being a lesbian. One of the questions one minister asked him was, is she ever the guy it was, And you know, she said, no, but I know who I am.

And you know, they were dismissing her cause she had not slept together. She was not a lesbian. She didn't know who she was. But for me, all that didn't matter. All I remembered for the longest time was the pride in her voice. When she said, I know who I am, I am a lesbian, you know, include me. I need my rights.

I want my rights. There was so much power in that for.

Andy Gott: So powerful to hear that and powerful on various levels in that for you, it was that visibility that you had been seeking out and craving, looking for someone who you could [00:13:00] capture as that northern star, but also to imagine the strength it would've taken for that person to be so bold and be so brave.

In the face of dismissal, even persecution. So just incredible.

Moud Goba: She was so brave and yeah, I think that that power really for, I can imagine for many lesbians who heard her that day. It was completely everything because we had nothing. You were just alone and thinking you were literally the only one in the village or in the country for that matter.

Andy Gott: What are some of the unique struggles that specifically LGBTQ refugees and asylum seekers face?

Moud Goba: The challenges for many is housing because when they come to these countries, remember their refugees and they put in with other refugees sometimes when the home country, and that means they still [00:14:00] experience.

Instances of violence, instances of homophobia, transphobia, biphobia, you know, queerphobia. So sometimes they abandon these accommodations become homeless, then they are now. In a situation where they can be exploited. Cause sometimes they go to the spaces and find themselves in a sexual exploitative situation just so they can have a roof over their head or they get into domestic servitude.

Because for LGBT refugees safety is important. Even though it might seem to them that. There's sexual exploitation happening here, but at least I'm safe. I've got a roof over my head. No one is going to be shouting at me about my sexuality. No one is going to be trying to threaten me or beat me cause of my sexuality.

Then there's a challenge of waiting and proving yourself. When you seek asylum as an lgbt, you have to prove yourself, you know, how do you prove that you're gay? How do you prove that this is who I am? It's a tough situation. You. Also experience poverty because you're [00:15:00] isolated from your family, you're isolated from everyone.

You don't have the safety net that other refugees have. There's a lot of technical support in communities and from churches and from religious spaces that newcomers get when they get to a country. But this is not available for LGBTQ refugees, so literally isolated, just starting from scratch. In the uk, you're not allowed to work.

I think you get just over 40 pounds a week to survive on. That includes for your food, for your clothing, and for your transport. So you have to make, do with that. And the challenge once you're granted refugee status. If grand, it's also starting again. You know, you have to look for a job, but before you do that, do you have a house to stay in?

You know, if you have to come out of Home Office accommodation, you get 28 days, but you haven't been working, you don't have a credit history in your new country, so where are you going to get [00:16:00] the deposit to give you a new landlord? How are you going to get a a house? You can't get a house on the local council sometimes because you don't.

enough ties to the community that you are getting into. So it's such a struggle when you jump. During the time you're an asylum seeker and the new refugee, so it's almost like throughout your journey, you have all these struggles that you have to go through, including you in a new country. So for many, that includes you have to suddenly remember you're black or your other like I was coming from a black majority country. And then when you come to the, oh, okay, there's other issues of race here I didn't know. But you learn you know, there's lots of other intersectional challenges that you face. 

I was a mother, so there's that as well, and just being a woman. So there's all these different things to negotiate and to navigate when you're going through the system. but [00:17:00] also you still all through this, you still have to carry through trauma. 

So for many people who might not know why L G T people flee, there are more than 65 countries that still criminalize homosexuality and 11 of them carry the death penalty.

So you can actually get killed for countries like Uganda. You can get 14 years in prison and if your family don't tell the government or family and friends that they know you're gay, they also face prison two years, charities and organizations. It's illegal for them to support gay people. So all this means some people have been imprisoned, some people have been through forced marriages, some people have been actively harassed and mobbed by their own communities.

So that is trauma. You know, women have faced corrective rape or have been raped. . So you are holding onto this because you're going through this process where you want to be safe and you want to get your status. And then once that's done, [00:18:00] you also have to deal with the trauma that happened to you. Or you might have had an interview that retraumatized you, you know?

Cause in this interview you have to prove your case. So sometimes it means sharing instances where you experience sexual violence or gender-based violence or where. Talk about your persecution for those that have been imprisoned. So there's a lot quite heavy to deal with, but you do get through it.

Andy Gott: What do you do for you? How do you take care of yourself? 

Moud Goba: It's all sounds doom and gloom. I know , which it is. But at the end. There's some good that comes out of all of this. You know, people are in a safe country. They come to place where eventually they granted refugee status. They're free, there's freedom and they're free to leave their true lives.

And That for me is everything. When people are leaving their true self, sometimes you see people get married a little invite, wedding or people just get back to you and say, you know, I'm working, I'm now doing [00:19:00] this. I had a message from LinkedIn the other day. A guy telling me works for airlines.

He's a writer for an airline magazine, and you're telling me, oh, I'm doing so well. I just wanna let you know, you worked with me 10 years ago. You know, I'm working here and I'm doing this. I was so proud. Stories like that of people who move on and they integrated into the new community.

It's beautiful and there are lots of those. So while we get also bogged down with trying to resolve the issues of going through this process, they are also at the end of the tunnel. All these good things that happen, all these beautiful stories of people who have gone through it and Doing well in society, living their freedom, living their true selves.

That is beautiful for me. My self care? I'm still working on.

Andy Gott: I asked you to bring three selections to discuss that had [00:20:00] spoken to you or resonated with you on your own journey, and before I press play, what is the first selection that you've picked?

Moud Goba: The first selection that I picked is from another tribe, actually, which is not my tribe. They're like several tribes in Zimbabwe, but it's, they're one of the main tribes. It's from another tribes called SA by a person called Que. It's a greeting. And is greeting this beautiful woman.

And he just asks her, where are your people from? It, it's just a feel good song and sometimes when I feel down, I listen to it because of the different greeting in different languages that are from our people. So that's why I love this.[00:21:00] 

Andy Gott: How do you feel when you hear that?

Moud Goba: I absolutely love it. It just makes me feel good. I love it. It's a feel good song.

Andy Gott: Do you remember when that would've first come into your life?

Moud Goba: What did I feel when I first headed? I was like, oh, okay. This is nice. This feels good, and. I could understand some of the words. So I started to ask my friend from that tribe, she's also a, a refugee.

And I said, what does this mean? Sometimes you, everything you don't understand, you know, I asked her what it means, and she told me. I was so excited, but I could already hear all the different greetings throughout the song, but she explained the song. But yeah, it felt good.

Andy Gott: Gorgeous. Okay. And did you have your next selection, and why you picked it.

Moud Goba: Okay, so this one is called by Oliver [00:22:00] Mtukudzi. Why I picked it because I used to listen to it growing up. He a few years ago. He was like Very popular Zimbabwe singer. He used to also sing internationally. He was very good and his songs always had meaning. But when I was growing up I was just dance it cuz it was a good song in his impression Then but as I grew older, now I relate to it because it's talking about I miss home, you know?

And in the song the mother says to the person, please come back home. You know come and breastfeed. Like this really sayings that means something. The mother's saying, come back, no, come back into my arms..

And the person's saying I miss home. So sometimes I feel, I feel when I'm missing home, cuz I haven't been to Zimbabwe for a very long [00:23:00] time. And you know, I always sing it when I miss home or listen to the name is home. Like literally this person is saying, I, I miss home, I'm thinking of home. I want to go home.

and the mother is saying, come back. So I was related. I wonder if one day would decriminalize this. That would be them saying, come home,

And I'm saying, I miss home. And they'll decriminalize and say, come back. Come into my arms. Come into mother. Your mother is welcoming you back home. Your motherland is here for you, but not yet.

Andy Gott: I, I'm so sorry if this is a stupid question cause I imagine it might be a stupid question, but what, what would be the consequences if you were to travel home?

Moud Goba: If I were to travel home, then I would lose my Visa for the uk. But I think at this stage also for me, the fear is you know, I, I do a lot of [00:24:00] work and high profile person doing a lot of activism. I'm not sure I, I would feel safe. Going back home. And I know my country can make an example of anyone you know, currently one of the opposite member of a political party has imprisoned for no reason.

And he's been there for months and months without bail, you know. And that was just for having a political rally, which should be normal. So sometimes I'm really scared to go that I would be made an example of, especially in the lead up to the elections and the lead up to, to the elections always mean.

Sometimes queer people are used as scapegoat for many things. 

There'll be consequences and I'm not really ready to find out. Maybe they won't be. Maybe things have moved on, but from the people that I talk to who have experienced sometimes harassment, I'm not yet there to go, especially because of my work and activities.

Andy Gott: Okay. [00:25:00] Your third selection. What did you select and why?

Moud Goba: So this one is just a love song. It's Zimbabwe and the Nigerian artist they got together and sang this song and is asking a questions. Be able to be good mothers, my children, how you teach them our language. It's just a beautiful love song and I liked it because it's that sound that just connects you to home, especially with that artist is really good. And and it takes you back and, you know, people sing in your language and it's beautiful.

Andy Gott: So you do still seek out new music from home, that's being released now. 

Moud Goba: I do. Like I said, when we emailed, it's, it's the only connection we have from home sometimes. [00:26:00] And you know, when you go on YouTube, which is great, you just look around, see what's happening you know, See the music, it's like a little connection to your people that you have, in the absence of being able to go home. Music speaks to your soul, doesn't it? It's comforting. It's soothe you. It's your language, it's your land, and you can imagine things. 

Andy Gott: Thank you so much for this beautiful conversation and again, for your time. I am sure that anyone who's been listening to this is probably wondering how best they can help with the work that you do. What's the most urgent need for Micro Rainbow and how best can people support?

Moud Goba: I think for us we always need support financially, but I know. things are really hard for people at the moment. So ways in which people can help us, you know, they can look on our website, see how they can help. We always welcome volunteers. Sometimes we don't [00:27:00] have enough money for translators and people need help in translation.

So people, they come through to our website, see what languages we need, if they can help. It's volunteering. We have social inclusion work. We're members of the public help us with different workshops. So if someone has a talent and skills, we always can use people's skills. In our work, we also have, every time we open a house, we have an Amazon wishlist

So, people can send plates, cups, little things like a toaster or, you know, some spoons, cooking sticks pillows. Anything that can sort of help us to make the house feel homely when, whenever we open a new house,

Andy Gott: Moud Goba, thank you so much for your time today and you are queer and thank you very much for your tracks.

Moud Goba: Thank you so much for inviting me. It's been beautiful, . It's been beautiful. Thank you.[00:28:00] 

Andy Gott: Mode. Goba is the National Manager of Micro Rainbow, a UK charity that helps lgbtq plus refugees and asylum seekers find accommodation, work, and a new life free from persecution 

Mode. Goba is the national manager of Micro Rainbow, a UK charity that helps lgbtq plus refugees and asylum seekers find accommodation, work, and a new life free from persecution, 

a refugee herself.

M left Zimbabwe for the UK when she realized she could not live safely there anymore as a lesbian. Through her hard work with both Micro Rainbow and UK Black Pride Motor's been recognized as an Attitude Pride Award winner and one of the world's most inspirational women by the bbc.

Usually I ask a guest to consider a track, an album, and an artist, but this episode Moud graciously [00:29:00] shared three different trucks that remind her of home. 

Usually I ask a guest to consider a track, an album, and an artist, but this episode Moud graciously shared three different tracks that remind her of home.

I can't wait for you to hear them over to.

You can learn more about Moud and Micro Rainbow in this episode. Show notes. You can donate much needed funds or purchase something from the Amazon wishlist. 

This episode concludes the first season of tracks of our queers. I hope you've enjoyed hearing these conversations and musical choices as much as I.

There's some wonderful conversations to come, so keep an eye on your podcast app in just a couple of months.

This episode was recorded on Gadigal land and I recognize that sovereignty was never seed. Tracks of our queers is edited, produced, and [00:30:00] presented by me. Andy got a huge shout out to Anthony Garvin, thank you so much for all of your help this season.

You can email me at tracks of our queers dot.

Do get in touch. You can e to get in touch. You can email me at tracks of our queers gmail.com, or you can follow on the pod, or you can follow on the gram at tracks of our queers. See you next time.